need suggestions on a good engine oil with adequate ZDDP
12-12-2014, 12:41 PM
#31
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The other tidbit of info. to consider, is the vehicle and oil manufacturers can only list what is the most efficient lubricant in regards to mileage/consumption. Think "green". There's NO consideration for the consumers longevity of their vehicle or it's components. Hell, I think the tire/ suspension manufacturers lobby to keep our roads in such poor shape :-).
The recommendation I'd rely on, would be that of the (trusted) engine builders. Who see the direct effects of lubricants.
The recommendation I'd rely on, would be that of the (trusted) engine builders. Who see the direct effects of lubricants.
12-12-2014, 12:57 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
IMHO, Oil flow is what it is all about.
One wants the entire flow capacity of the oil pump going through the bearings at the highest pressure possible, not out the pressure bypass circuit and back to the tank and this theoretically would be achieved by the perfect viscosity in a hot engine.
Unfortunately, the flow dimension is not measurable by the casual user.
12-12-2014, 05:23 PM
#34
The other tidbit of info. to consider, is the vehicle and oil manufacturers can only list what is the most efficient lubricant in regards to mileage/consumption. Think "green". There's NO consideration for the consumers longevity of their vehicle or it's components. Hell, I think the tire/ suspension manufacturers lobby to keep our roads in such poor shape :-).
The recommendation I'd rely on, would be that of the (trusted) engine builders. Who see the direct effects of lubricants.
The recommendation I'd rely on, would be that of the (trusted) engine builders. Who see the direct effects of lubricants.
The heavier weight oils are not considered to be fuel efficient and so are less restricted as to ZDDP than the lighter weight oils, these heavier oils w/ more ZDDP have the ILSEC donut label
ZDDP content prior to '96 was in the 1600ppm range, MT 15w-50 at 1200/1300 is considered to be adequate by most oil experts
12-12-2014, 05:27 PM
#35
12-12-2014, 10:44 PM
#36
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Actually the manufacturers are far more worried about the mandated emissions warranty and the life of components like the cat that are integral to that. This was the reason for reducing the ZDDP requirement in oil starting in 1996, a secondary concern is fuel efficiency which is why the manufactures are moving to lighter weight oils. The oils that should never ever be used in our engines are those w/ the ILSEC starburst label
The heavier weight oils are not considered to be fuel efficient and so are less restricted as to ZDDP than the lighter weight oils, these heavier oils w/ more ZDDP have the ILSEC donut label
ZDDP content prior to '96 was in the 1600ppm range, MT 15w-50 at 1200/1300 is considered to be adequate by most oil experts
The heavier weight oils are not considered to be fuel efficient and so are less restricted as to ZDDP than the lighter weight oils, these heavier oils w/ more ZDDP have the ILSEC donut label
ZDDP content prior to '96 was in the 1600ppm range, MT 15w-50 at 1200/1300 is considered to be adequate by most oil experts
That's what I was getting at, they are more concerned with emission constrains and fuel economy than engine longevity.
12-12-2014, 11:03 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
But, you can theoretically have a high pressure and zero oil flow.
12-12-2014, 11:10 PM
#38
RL Technical Advisor
I would recommend a 15w-40 for you.
12-12-2014, 11:29 PM
#39
Drifting
Agreed the new Porsche line of classic oils in 10W60 and 20W50 say it all as far as the appropriate grades for these engines.
12-13-2014, 08:03 AM
#41
Where did you read that?
A few years ago, Blackstone tested an amusing collection of vintage oil cans - likely from the 50's through early 80's. The results where all over the place but nothing consistently that high. (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsl...ril-1-2012.php, http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsl...une-1-2012.php, http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsl...ber-1-2012.php).
Of course, there's more to it than just the concentration of 2 elements, hence the various API & OE standards / requirements. Anyone see an oil analysis for the new Porsche oils yet?
A few years ago, Blackstone tested an amusing collection of vintage oil cans - likely from the 50's through early 80's. The results where all over the place but nothing consistently that high. (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsl...ril-1-2012.php, http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsl...une-1-2012.php, http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsl...ber-1-2012.php).
Of course, there's more to it than just the concentration of 2 elements, hence the various API & OE standards / requirements. Anyone see an oil analysis for the new Porsche oils yet?
12-13-2014, 08:30 AM
#42
Three Wheelin'
I don't think I'd ban them; I would simply ask for maintaining civility & courtesy (rapidly decreasing qualities) when discussing or debating such a divisive and contentious topic. 
Based on my phone traffic & e-mails about this subject, there seems to still be a lot of people who are confused and/or overwhelmed by the sheer amount of posts which have left folks wondering what to, and what not to use in their air-cooled engine.
While I've written ad nauseum about oils for 17+ years, both here and on Pelican, I still don't mind answering questions when people need a bottom-line solution.
Its a complex subject with variables well beyond the spec sheets/VOA's and there is no substitute for the practical field experience gleaned from rebuilding a LOT of these engines for 35+ years and I'm happy to share that.
Based on my phone traffic & e-mails about this subject, there seems to still be a lot of people who are confused and/or overwhelmed by the sheer amount of posts which have left folks wondering what to, and what not to use in their air-cooled engine.
While I've written ad nauseum about oils for 17+ years, both here and on Pelican, I still don't mind answering questions when people need a bottom-line solution.
Its a complex subject with variables well beyond the spec sheets/VOA's and there is no substitute for the practical field experience gleaned from rebuilding a LOT of these engines for 35+ years and I'm happy to share that.
Steve, if you don't mind sharing: what are the aspects aside from oil spec that have the most influence on lubrication failures?
I'm thinking of things like: driving style from cold; contamination introduced during oil changes; fuel dilution from leaking injectors; oil levels; moisture content from condensation; oil pickup/sump/pump design; OPRV issues; non-OE parts; etc etc.
Which external factor is the most significant, what's the failure mode, and what are the symptoms?
Thanks,
Mike (ICML MLT1)
12-13-2014, 01:24 PM
#45
Drifting
^ unlikely with Mobil as the OEM factory fill supplier.