DrZ

Re: follow up to discovery that 98 Cab purchased from non P dealer had obvious R and R of the speedo.

Seller(Autoquest of FL) searched records and spoke to PO. Apparently speedo was replaced at Shelton Porsche in 1998 for "condensation". Service mgr there faxed me the warranty work order and offered to stamp my book retroactively.

Incredible that PO, seller, and servicing dealer were so lackadasical about documenting something this important. I guess felony investigation and or civil suit never occurred to them. Amazing that job was so poorly done i.e., scratch in lens and improper replacement and also went unnoticed to everyone including Suncoast who did the PPI. As for the body damage, Autoquest and the PO stand behind their claim that only front bumper was painted. I compared my car very carefully to a friend's same artic silver P certified 97 Cab, and we could not find any obvious differences. Could be Hergesheimer got it wrong on this one.

I feel a great weight has been lifted, I now can enjoy the car again. Thanks for comments and advice. I hope that I can be a valuable contributor to the board in the future

Martin S.

You wrote, "Could be Hergesheimer got it wrong on this one."

Not knowing the history of the speedo mystery, I am curious about your comment on Hergesheimer. Is this a comment directed at Hergesheimer Motorsports? What are you inferring here? Lets not conduct a trial in abstentia with no facts on the table.

This is my gut response to your comment. On a cheery positive note, I agree with your commitment to the effect, "I hope that I can be a valuable contributor to the board in the future."

STLPCA

[quote]Originally posted by DrZ:
<strong>Apparently speedo was replaced at Shelton Porsche in 1998 for "condensation".</strong><hr></blockquote>

DrZ
AFAIK, federal law mandates that a dated, written notice be affixed to the left door frame showing the mileage before any odometer service, repair or replacement. Plus, at the time of sale a mileage certification must be completed. At least someone in the chain violated the law. There is strict liability - i.e., there is no defense.

PramTT

I had the speedometer on my 993TT replaced at 9kmiles . The P dealer stamped my service book and attached a sticker on the driver door jamb. The paper sticker has fallen off since but I still have the record in my service record booklet.

Laura

Sir,

Our statement was that the car had been repainted in additional areas. (See your original post) We did not state who, when or where the painting took place.

As for the gauges, Our inspection was to determine that factory instrumentation was present and in proper working condition. There was no obvious indicators that any had been tampered with.

(See your original post below)
***I bought a 98 Cab from a used car dealer in FL. several months ago. PO was reported to be a respected car collector well known to the dealer.
The car was described to me as in "awesome" condition with 4600 miles. A PPI done at Suncoast Porsche reported only minor problems. Once the car arrived in CA I had Hergesheimer do a post
purchase inspection. They found that the front bumper was replaced and the left front fender was removed and painted, right rear fender brace was replaced and left rear had overspray on caliper, also fuel cannister was not installed properly. I assumed from this that the car had been in a major wreck but Hergesheimer found no other structural damage to suggest this. Car Fax was clean except for a duplicate title optained in 2000. Mileage was restated as 949. Warranty work was done once in 1998 @ 1600 miles.

I was okay with all this until last week when I noticed for the first time that the speeodmeter gasket was pushed in and that the glass has a very small crack near the bezel. I had the engine hours checked which came out to 375. Total mileage now up to 9000. I have contributed 4500 miles on it myself driving mostly on the freeway @ 70 to 80MPH. Average MPH calculates to 24.

I contacted the dealer who expressed shock. He promised to speak with the PO and get back to me. I suspect something very fishy about this car. There are apparently no records other than the warranty work at 1600 miles 2 months into the PO's ownership.

I would appreciate hearing what others think, Is an average of 24MPH reasonable? Should I demand that the dealer take this car back and return my money? Thanks for reading this through.***

If you would like to discuss anything further, I would be more than happy to accomodate your call to our shop. 949 458-7223.

Laura

Mr Michael B

DrZ,

You know... This was nothing to lose sleep over anyhow.

Its not like the car was going to dissolve now that you found a speedo mystery. I am amazed at how a person could obsess over a detail to the point of it "severely spoiling" the rest of the "package."

You still had/have a great car, your health, and a place to call home (I assume). Why would this be considered such an awful event that you would be distraught over it?

I will give you this: Lets say the car is somehow worth less now than before... But so what. Is that the end of the world? Its not - fellow Porsche guy. Its just not that big of a deal.

Now if you had been sold a stolen car, and the authorities tracked you & the car down, then took it away with no consideration for you (that happened to a pal of mine on a Lincoln), THEN you would have something to be less than pleased about.

All is well that ends well however. Oh, and I am glad you posted, as it is an interesting read.

Final note: Laura... I think you are a asset to the forums, and your actions on this particular matter are commendable. Bravo.

DrZ

Mike sorry to disagree, but speedometer tampering is a state and federal felony! In California I would not be able to attest the actual mileage when the time comes to sell the car. All things considered would you buy a used "low mileage" Porsche with undocumented miles?

Mr Michael B

Dr,

No problem. Again I like your post.

My thoughts more directly are: That in the big picture, your speedo issue is not a heart attack.

As you can see, now that all is "ironed out," you are back to enjoying your machine. My point is/was, that you never HAD TO stop the enjoyment. You still have the car, and the other great bits of life as we know it.

As for "would I buy a used low mileage car with undocumented miles." Sure would - if it looked good. I can tell a stinker from a gem from 1/2 a mile. I am my own PPI performer, and 65 cars later, I have yet to be sorry.

Enjoy Dr.. And Live Man Live!

Dave I

[quote]Originally posted by Michael B.:
<strong>Dr,

No problem. Again I like your post.

My thoughts more directly are: That in the big picture, your speedo issue is not a heart attack.

As you can see, now that all is "ironed out," you are back to enjoying your machine. My point is/was, that you never HAD TO stop the enjoyment. You still have the car, and the other great bits of life as we know it.

As for "would I buy a used low mileage car with undocumented miles." Sure would - if it looked good. I can tell a stinker from a gem from 1/2 a mile. I am my own PPI performer, and 65 cars later, I have yet to be sorry.

Enjoy Dr.. And Live Man Live!</strong><hr></blockquote>

A lot of people who purchase 993's want to have peace of mind that they made the right decision, and have a feeling that they got exactly what they bargained for when forking over their hard earned $$.

Not everyone has the luxury of being able to detect flaws from 1/2 mile away, and are forced to agonize that their dream car is in reality everything that is being represented to them. If they do find something after the fact that may take away from their peace of mind, then I think it's understandable to have to vent a little.

SundayDriver

[quote]Originally posted by DrZ:
<strong>Mike sorry to disagree, but speedometer tampering is a state and federal felony! In California I would not be able to attest the actual mileage when the time comes to sell the car. All things considered would you buy a used "low mileage" Porsche with undocumented miles?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have to say I am very disappointed at your lack of resopnse to the comments about Hergesheimer. While I think you were questioning if they were correct about the paint, the fact is that you implied far more than that. If you have any class, you will clarify and apologize if your comments were misunderstood.

Mike in Chi

I took Michael B to be saying in a positive, good-natured way to relax and enjoy the car.

I've obsessed, fretted, been compulsive with these cars over what in the great scheme of things (as Michael points out), is small stuff.

What's the worst case in dollar terms between a car with certified mileage and one with questionable mileage. $5,000? $10,000? We probably all lost that when the market, and resale value turned south. We can still get full enjoyment value out of the car.

I'm with Mark that you made a serious implication with your post.

Relax and enjoy the car.

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Mike in Chi

DrZ

I suggest you read original posts and take comment in the proper context. I have stated facts to the best of my knowlege with out flaming anyone. I have also responded privately to Laura. I think it is best to leave it at that.

Mr Michael B

Hey Dave,

I am with ya man... But I am afraid that my point is still not driven home for you.

Lets look at this above deal. The car was to have 4600 miles, but it had a swapped speedo in 1998... Okay, lets assume that the speedo was swapped early because the original owner did not like the fogged speedo glass. How many miles could this thing have on it extra? 2K? (Ya think a guy should be able to find that out I would guess.) It says in year 2000 the miles were stated at 949? But in '98 it had 1600? No matter how you look at it, this was a rarely driven machine (shame). I would assume the miles were stated before speedo swap on the faxed over warrantee papers. Add the mileage then, to the mileage now, and tah-da, your mileage is documented. Check that with the engine hours if you must.

Okay, now we know the car is low mileage no matter what, but lets get back to this "engine hours" calculation. That cant be trusted, but somehow it is given the go ahead to believe it. There was what 375 engine hours and it was extrapolated to be something like 9000 miles now? Fine, sounds good. Let me tell you, that engine hours thing is only a indication, you cant base losing any sleep over it. I have a pal with a 1997 993TT whom sits in traffic an hour a day, going NOWHERE. He loves it. He puts the air on, and drinks his Latte Mocha and talks to me on the cell phone. What does this mean to the next guy who checks HIS engine hours??? "He must have a gazillion miles on it!" they will say. However, he does not. You cant preach the engine hours to = miles as gospel.

In any case, so be it. Call it 9K miles now. How awful is that? Vent if you want, but look at the big picture please (and live without agony).

Thanks Mike in Chi for seeing the point.

I oh so do appreciate your input though. I love reading this stuff, as I have so much more extra time to answer post's since I don't sweat the small stuff in life. I just look at my great big picture & hug & kiss everyone I come across (watch out Ray, you could be next).

Phil

its just a car. If your going to go after them for odo fraud, do so! A ppi cannot catch every thing that may be wrong. Time is money, and I doubt a PPI would take more than two hours max. So like Mike B siad....be it 4600 miles or 9000 miles......enjoy the car, drive the pi$$ out of it..sounds like thats what it needs anyway

Just my Insane opinion

SundayDriver

[quote]Originally posted by DrZ:
<strong>I suggest you read original posts and take comment in the proper context. I have stated facts to the best of my knowlege with out flaming anyone. I have also responded privately to Laura. I think it is best to leave it at that.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Public implication of incompetence + private message to Laura = Sleazy

I, for one, will make sure never to give you any advice. I know others feel the same. As a newbie with ~20 posts, you have certainly made quite an impression here.