Is this normal? (valve lifter question)
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Bristol, UK
Is this normal? (valve lifter question)
Hi there
I had a collapsed lifter a while ago (lower drivers side) and replaced all three lifters with new ones bought from the dealer. The noise (which was very loud once the enigine was warm) was now mostly gone but when compared to the other side it sounded still quite 'tappy'.
I had read that the dealers had a bad batch of these lifters so bought some new 'INA' ones from and ebay seller here in the UK. I fitted these and it still sounds exactly the same! so - it this normal? I mean, do the lifters bed in and quite down after some time? I have done 1.5k miles since the last change and they still sound tappy.
Paranoia is now setting in that I have the wrong lifters in there....
I had a collapsed lifter a while ago (lower drivers side) and replaced all three lifters with new ones bought from the dealer. The noise (which was very loud once the enigine was warm) was now mostly gone but when compared to the other side it sounded still quite 'tappy'.
I had read that the dealers had a bad batch of these lifters so bought some new 'INA' ones from and ebay seller here in the UK. I fitted these and it still sounds exactly the same! so - it this normal? I mean, do the lifters bed in and quite down after some time? I have done 1.5k miles since the last change and they still sound tappy.
Paranoia is now setting in that I have the wrong lifters in there....
Last edited by leeshephard; Sep 8, 2014 at 04:27 AM.
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From: Chesapeake, VA
Dumb questions first
1) did you put all rockers back in the same spot they came from?
2) did you remove all the oring material from each rocker? They tend to break when you pull the old ones out. If any was left behind, it could possibly block the oiler hole and the lifter would fail to pressurize.
3)did you inspect each rocker for flat spots or abnormal wear before reinstalling them?
4) did each rocker shaft seat properly against the housing? I think the noise would be awful if this happened so it's unlikely.
If all above was done properly, I can't see a second set being bad also. After doing mine I thought the noise was a bit loud but everyone else, including my indy shop said it sounded perfect. Oil samples have come back great so I have to agree it is good.
1) did you put all rockers back in the same spot they came from?
2) did you remove all the oring material from each rocker? They tend to break when you pull the old ones out. If any was left behind, it could possibly block the oiler hole and the lifter would fail to pressurize.
3)did you inspect each rocker for flat spots or abnormal wear before reinstalling them?
4) did each rocker shaft seat properly against the housing? I think the noise would be awful if this happened so it's unlikely.
If all above was done properly, I can't see a second set being bad also. After doing mine I thought the noise was a bit loud but everyone else, including my indy shop said it sounded perfect. Oil samples have come back great so I have to agree it is good.
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Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Ontario, Canada
I replaced my exhaust lifters last year with OEM Porsche units. I had a pretty obvious tick/tap coming from the driver side even after putting a few hundred miles on them.
I dropped the motor this winter and while doing the intake lifters I decided to open up the exhaust side again and take a look see. I took a guess which cylinder the noise was coming from as it was tough to pinpoint with a stethoscope.
I guessed right and found that one of the new exhaust lifters I installed never pumped up. When the lifters are packaged for shipping the manufacturer somehow locks the plunger in place, otherwise the spring force would push them out of the lifter body. For some reason this one lifter never extended from the shipping position. I could not move the plunger even with large amounts of force.
After replacing with another new one, the loud tap is gone. I do however notice that the driver side still has a more noticeable clatter sound than the passenger side. I've seen many others point out a similar observation. I'd say if the obvious tapping is gone and you're left with some light clatter that's more noticeable on the driver's side, it may not be a problem.
I dropped the motor this winter and while doing the intake lifters I decided to open up the exhaust side again and take a look see. I took a guess which cylinder the noise was coming from as it was tough to pinpoint with a stethoscope.
I guessed right and found that one of the new exhaust lifters I installed never pumped up. When the lifters are packaged for shipping the manufacturer somehow locks the plunger in place, otherwise the spring force would push them out of the lifter body. For some reason this one lifter never extended from the shipping position. I could not move the plunger even with large amounts of force.
After replacing with another new one, the loud tap is gone. I do however notice that the driver side still has a more noticeable clatter sound than the passenger side. I've seen many others point out a similar observation. I'd say if the obvious tapping is gone and you're left with some light clatter that's more noticeable on the driver's side, it may not be a problem.
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These cars vary a lot with respect to valve train noise - wear, oil temps, oil brand and weight, lifter condition, valve condition, cam shaft condition - and then there are the human ears, where to one guy its a LOUD tapping but to another is perfectly normal.
You can compare side to side sometimes, and pickup if a single lifter is failing that one side is noisier than another, or you can use the screwdriver trick sometimes, although that is usually pretty hard given the noise these engines generate. As was said before, exhaust lifters usually take more heat and seem to fail quicker than the intake valves, but intakes can get noisy as well.
Have you compared your car side by side with a few other ones of comparable mileage and condition? They have to be side by side, same oil temperature (and hopefully weight), etc. Even then, there is a range of noises that is perfectly normal.
Cheers,
Mike
You can compare side to side sometimes, and pickup if a single lifter is failing that one side is noisier than another, or you can use the screwdriver trick sometimes, although that is usually pretty hard given the noise these engines generate. As was said before, exhaust lifters usually take more heat and seem to fail quicker than the intake valves, but intakes can get noisy as well.
Have you compared your car side by side with a few other ones of comparable mileage and condition? They have to be side by side, same oil temperature (and hopefully weight), etc. Even then, there is a range of noises that is perfectly normal.
Cheers,
Mike
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From: was: CA, 956XX
When I replaced all of my lifters at the beginning of the year, I found 2 rockers with limited movement due to the shaft not spinning freely. I took them apart and found material build up on the shaft. I refinished the surface and made sure the rockers moved easily. Why the 2 components didn't like each other is beyond me but the valves were always a bit louder and I thought it was the lifters.
This problem could have been catastrophic since the valve travel was shorter than normal. Eventually, the piston could have caught it. I drove the car like this for 30k miles. Now with new lifters and the full travel of the 2 rockers, the engine seems to have found some 30hp or so. It runs much smoother and is snappier on the gas.
Car has now 82k miles.
This problem could have been catastrophic since the valve travel was shorter than normal. Eventually, the piston could have caught it. I drove the car like this for 30k miles. Now with new lifters and the full travel of the 2 rockers, the engine seems to have found some 30hp or so. It runs much smoother and is snappier on the gas.
Car has now 82k miles.
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When I replaced all of my lifters at the beginning of the year, I found 2 rockers with limited movement due to the shaft not spinning freely. I took them apart and found material build up on the shaft. I refinished the surface and made sure the rockers moved easily. Why the 2 components didn't like each other is beyond me but the valves were always a bit louder and I thought it was the lifters.
I hope that has not happened on other key internal areas of the engine - like the piston sprayers ...
Anything unusual in the maintenance history of the car?
Cheers,
Mike
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From: was: CA, 956XX
Hey Mike,
It wasn't oil crud, it seems to have seized at some point. There was metal built up on the shaft which I sandstoned off and repolished. It was very minor but enough to not make the rocker arm rotate to its full travel. The inside of the engine is very clean, I hardly burn any oil, I have all service records of the previous owner who owned the car from 1999 through 2007.
From the day I purchased the car, I could hear this slight valve tapping but it wasn't very different from all the others. Now I know that I should have looked into it earlier but it doesn't seem to have damaged anything.
I never did a compression check or dyno run but I have cars to compare with and its doing alright. The engine was never out but somebody did a number on sealing the valve covers. Maybe something dropped in by accident, who knows. It's all history now.
Thanks for asking.
Ed
It wasn't oil crud, it seems to have seized at some point. There was metal built up on the shaft which I sandstoned off and repolished. It was very minor but enough to not make the rocker arm rotate to its full travel. The inside of the engine is very clean, I hardly burn any oil, I have all service records of the previous owner who owned the car from 1999 through 2007.
From the day I purchased the car, I could hear this slight valve tapping but it wasn't very different from all the others. Now I know that I should have looked into it earlier but it doesn't seem to have damaged anything.
I never did a compression check or dyno run but I have cars to compare with and its doing alright. The engine was never out but somebody did a number on sealing the valve covers. Maybe something dropped in by accident, who knows. It's all history now.
Thanks for asking.
Ed
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 205
Likes: 2
From: Bristol, UK
These cars vary a lot with respect to valve train noise - wear, oil temps, oil brand and weight, lifter condition, valve condition, cam shaft condition - and then there are the human ears, where to one guy its a LOUD tapping but to another is perfectly normal.
You can compare side to side sometimes, and pickup if a single lifter is failing that one side is noisier than another, or you can use the screwdriver trick sometimes, although that is usually pretty hard given the noise these engines generate. As was said before, exhaust lifters usually take more heat and seem to fail quicker than the intake valves, but intakes can get noisy as well.
Have you compared your car side by side with a few other ones of comparable mileage and condition? They have to be side by side, same oil temperature (and hopefully weight), etc. Even then, there is a range of noises that is perfectly normal.
Cheers,
Mike
You can compare side to side sometimes, and pickup if a single lifter is failing that one side is noisier than another, or you can use the screwdriver trick sometimes, although that is usually pretty hard given the noise these engines generate. As was said before, exhaust lifters usually take more heat and seem to fail quicker than the intake valves, but intakes can get noisy as well.
Have you compared your car side by side with a few other ones of comparable mileage and condition? They have to be side by side, same oil temperature (and hopefully weight), etc. Even then, there is a range of noises that is perfectly normal.
Cheers,
Mike