mpruden

This is a lesson I had to learn the hard way. It's true what they say kids, not all shops can align a 993... even if they are Porsche specialists.

Alignment 1 - roughly 3 mo ago at IBP autosport in Sacramento. I take it in for alignment and corner balance after installing new springs. "No problem" they say. Well, after that the car felt down right dangerous at anything over 65 mph. Maybe their alignment tech had a bad day.

Alignment 2 - yesterday at Roger Krause Racing in Castro Valley. Wow. Like a different car. Here is the before and after.

The numbers don't look too bad, but the car really did handle poorly. It just goes to show that all the threads are true, the alignment on these cars does need to be dialed in "just right" to work as designed. Next time I need an alignment, I'll happily drive a bit to have it done properly.

sacman

Interesting and i'm surprised that 993 is that sensitive to alignment/misaligment. I also live in Sac. Is IBP the best shop in town for service?

QN

mpruden

Disclaimer: I'm not the best one to ask. There are others on the forum that have a lot of history with the shops in the area.

As for IBP, they seem to have a good reputation. Based on my one experience, I'm going to say avoid for alignments of 993s. There were some other issues with my alignment experience with them, but I chalk that up to front office / shop communication rather than lack of technical ability.

I've had a brake bleed done at Franks since they have a Hammer (my car has ABD, so this is required). Other than that, I try to do everything else myself. Franks is walking distance to light rail, so convenient too. Some other forum members really like renntech in Auburn.

pp000830

I had an alignment at a dealer after a coilover upgrade and it didn't feel right as the steering got very light and felt unsure like it was wandering over 70 mph. Here is the report I got. Anyone care to comment?

User 122821

I've used Roger Krause Racing for decades. They are mainly a race shop so only open during Monday through Friday. They are the only place I go for tire mounting and alignments.

trophy

I would call that a lazy alignment, ie the tech was too lazy to finish the job.

Toe left to right should be equal, for both the front and rear. Castor should be set to the max and EQUAL attainable. Now the differences are around half a mm however a good tech should be able to get the the same.

The differences in camber on the rear are alot different. not good.

My guess as there is no KT numbers mentioned is where the issue arises for your car. Any time you change the camber on the rear you need at minimum to check the KT measurement. considering the differences between the left and right before and after alignment i would say your KT is out and is causing the symptoms you mention.

LimeyBoy

+1 for double checking KT was done. After specifically choosing a shop with KT tools and know-how I still had weird floating feel after alignment. Checked the printed results and no KT values listed so I questioned and was told they kind of forgot. Got KT setup and bingo, spot on.

BlackCar

+2 on getting KT right. Couple years ago had suspension work and an alignment on my C4. Afterward, car was scary twitchy at speed and on curves. Took it to a different Porsche shop, told him the car was off, and to recheck alignment. He set KT correctly and fine tuned the rest. Handling is now back to normal. Unless your guy aligns the car correctly and has the KT tool, your 993 won't be right.

race911

And the one alignment I've EVER outsourced on any of my 911s (since 1980) was after I threw the PSS9 kit on the 4S. Took it over to the shop mentioned as the savior here. Promptly realigned it my own damn self about a month later................. Wasn't off much, but enough.

(Can't speak to Ron/IPB on this issue, but I've known him for probably 20 years and can't say he's anything but one of the good guys out there.)

Vandit

I have no experience w/ KT (I own a 964), but beyond the slight side-to-side inconsistencies, I like the "before" specs better. IMO your car now lacks negative camber. Said negative camber you had before was probably causing some of what you felt, since camber causes the car to follow imperfections on the road. Additionally, you now have even more toe in the rear, which settles the rear.

If you're not trying to race around corners and track/autocross on the weekends, then you'll probably be served just fine by the lack of camber. It helps straight line braking too.

Overall, your new alignment is safe and intended to give the car good road manners when driven below the limit.

mpruden

Good to hear on IPB.

I'm shocked that some folks around here do their own alignments. I've always been told that you just can't do an alignment without a specialized rack, lasers, 20 yrs experience, etc... I need to do more research to figure out how to do it myself next time.

Magdaddy

"Laser" alignment eqpt has such a foolish amount of deviation, it's really hard to know exactly what the true settings are.

Give me hubstand, or good ole string alignments anyday.

Attach the "laser" to the wheels...note the settings. Remove and reinstall...you could be off by 1/3-1/2 of a degree(20-30 minutes) from your previous readings.

When these cars are so sensitive to total rear toe especially, trying to find an extra 1/6th of a degree(change from 20-30 minutes) with a machine that has so much "acceptable error" built in...is laughable.

Took me three alignments, from multiple shops till mine was made right again. Experiemce with 993's, and even the KT tools meant nothing the first two times. Proper KT, and total rear toe are key to stability.

Lousy uncalibrated equiptment, inexperienced or lazy tech's, and shops not wanting to invest the time to do it right...all add up to a handling disaster with these cars.

"Well, it drives straight at least" that's what the tech told me about the car after the first alignment. Car was numb on center, wandered at highway speeds, and decided all by itself that the rear needed a mid corner correction in steering input.

Truely heaven or hell regarding alignments and these cars.

IMHO..."laser beams" belong only on mutant ill tempered sea bass.

k722070

mpruden,
did you ask why they left front castor at 4.5 when even the specified range they produce is 4.8 to 5.6?
I can see adjusting higher than the range, like 6 for a street car. but 4.5 doesn't make any sense.

looks like the problem with the first alignment was front and rear toe. be interesting to see how the first shop thinks they set toe.

race911

From 4 years ago: https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...alignment.html

As far as the "pro" line equipment, when I had my Hunter C111 pre-laser machine (bought new for my shop in '85), we'd occasionally compare with strings + camber gauges. They'd come out the same.

mpruden

Love it. I'm looking into this string + camber gauge method right now. Definitely taking the mystery out of alignments.

Is that the SmartStrings product in your other post?