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In the old days, jerks drove 911s. Now the jerks own the company....

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Old 04-15-2014, 11:28 PM
  #16  
Mercel
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The lemon laws should take care of this! Why aren't they? I think we're missing some facts here; PCNA does NOT get to neutralize the protection of these consumer laws.

I get why PCNA is pissed off at the videos. No matter, voluntary cooperation isn't required by PCNA in order for Lemon Laws to work. And why in the hell would PCNA threaten one of its customers??? That's just bizarre, if true.

Hire an attorney if you have to, but it shouldn't be necessary.
Old 04-15-2014, 11:41 PM
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mongrelcat
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Originally Posted by esses
Well at least his car doesn't go up in flames like the new GT3's.
Truth!



They (really) don't make 'em like they used to.

Long live the 993.
Old 04-15-2014, 11:46 PM
  #18  
Pags993
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^^ yup! Long live the 993
Old 04-16-2014, 12:09 AM
  #19  
cgfen
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interesting viddy
The owner must be a SW developer as he discusses the "unintended features".
AFAIK Porsche hasn't manufactured anything since 2008 (GT3 4.0 excepted) that I would want to buy and we HAVE an 09 C2S.
Old 04-16-2014, 12:28 AM
  #20  
ilko
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You don't like the 997.2 GT3 Craig?
Old 04-16-2014, 07:42 AM
  #21  
ble2011
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Between the IMS issues, the fires, and now this, makes me not want to buy a newer Porsche.
Old 04-16-2014, 09:19 AM
  #22  
Bill Verburg
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Originally Posted by goofballdeluxe
I don't know if any of you follow the 991 board, but one poor fellow has bought a $120K 911 that has turned out to be a total lemon. It has been in out of service several times for months on end. And still has problems.

If that's not bad enough, the way PCNA has handled this case is even worse. I guess at VW, er, Porsche, they are desperate for bad publicity because they could fix this easily and yet choose to now threaten him if he doesn't bend over and take it.

If the fragile electrics weren't enough to turn you off to buying a new 911, this video probably will. I feel bad for this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eXUn...ature=youtu.be
I had the same issue w/ Audi on the last S$ I bought, it was a lemon, in the shop every 6mo for the 4 yrs I owned it all for the same issue, the last time just before the warranty expired they had the car for 2 months, 6mo later post original warranty expiration they refused to stand behind their work I threatened to take them to court so they agreed to take the car in trade on a Toyota, still took a bath on it

I'll never again buy another VW or Audi product and have nothing good to say about the dealer or the VAG, Looks like Porsche has started to drink the same cool ade
Old 04-16-2014, 09:57 AM
  #23  
richardew
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Remember, there are 3 sides to every story- his, Porsche's, the truth. I feel sorry for the guy and hope that that is the exception and not the rule (I have a 17 day old Porsche!). I did a quick search of the lemon law in PA and in CA. I don't think there is any question that he got a lemon. In both states, what is required is a refund of the purchase price, less a usage allowance, or a replacement vehicle. Cars are covered by the lemon law for various amounts of time and or mileage. In PA it's the warranty period, in CA it's 18,000 miles or 18 months. He states that he was offered a refund less usage. In CA they assume that the car has a life of 150,000 miles and if you had driven 1500 miles, you'd get 99% back. The guy doesn't state exactly what PCNA offered, not exactly fair to PCNA. His approach is to attempt to generate negative publicity in an attempt to get a better settlement. I can understand his point of view - he has a lemon and he wants all of his money back but that's probably not what the law calls for. He can go to arbitration and if he doesn't like that outcome proceed to a lawsuit. In any event it doesn't seem that he is going to get more than the law calls for and his posting utube videos viewed by thousands isn't going to affect PCNA's bottom line at all.
A.OVERVIEW OF SONG-BEVERLY WARRANTY RIGHTS

The Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act (beginning with Civil Code section 1790) provides protection for consumers who lease or buy new motor vehicles. The law requires that if the manufacturer or its representative in this state, such as an authorized dealer, is unable to service or repair a new motor vehicle to meet the terms of an express written warranty after a reasonable number of repair attempts, the manufacturer is required promptly to replace the vehicle or return the purchase price to the lessee or buyer. The purchase price that must be returned includes the price paid for manufacturer-installed items and transportation but does not include the price paid for nonmanufacturer items installed by the dealer. The lessee or buyer is completely free to choose whether to accept a replacement or a refund. Whatever the choice, the manufacturer is also responsible to pay for sales or use tax; license, registration, and other official fees; and incidental damages that the lessee or buyer may have incurred such as finance charges, repair, towing, and rental car costs.

The lessee or buyer may be charged for the use of the vehicle regardless of whether the vehicle is replaced or the purchase price is refunded. The amount that may be charged for use is determined by multiplying the actual price of the new vehicle by a fraction having as its denominator 120,000 and as its numerator the number of miles traveled by the vehicle before it was first brought in for correction of the problem. For example, if the car had traveled 6,000 miles before it was first brought in for correction of the problem, the lessee or buyer could be charged 5% (6,000/120,000 = 5%) of the purchase price for usage.

The law applies for the entire period of your warranty. For example, if your vehicle is covered by a three-year warranty and you discover a defect after two years, the manufacturer will have to replace the vehicle or reimburse you as outlined above if the manufacturer or its representative is unable to conform the vehicle to the express warranty after a reasonable number of attempts to do so.

Song-Beverly does not apply if the problem was caused by abuse after the vehicle was delivered. Be sure you follow the terms of the warranty for maintenance and proper use of the vehicle.

Although there is a four-year statute of limitations to bring a law suit for breach of warranty or for violations of Song-Beverly, you should act promptly to try to resolve the problem fairly and quickly without legal action if possible.
Automobile Lemon Law

Pennsylvania's Automobile Lemon Law is designed to protect Pennsylvania consumers from unsafe and defective new cars.

The Automobile Lemon Law applies to the PURCHASE or LEASE of new vehicles that are registered in Pennsylvania. The vehicle must be used for personal, family or household purposes. Commercial vehicles, motorcycles, motor homes, and off-road vehicles are not covered by the law.

The law covers problems that occur during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles of ownership. The problem must substantially impair the value, use or safety of the vehicle. Each time you take your vehicle to the dealer for service or repair, the dealer must provide you with a copy of the repair invoice. The dealer must also notify the manufacturer that your vehicle has been brought in a second time for the same problem. As long as the first problem occurs during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles of ownership, you are covered for any subsequent problems occurring after that point.

File photo of a broken down car The law allows the manufacturer three repair attempts for the same problem. If the repairs are unsuccessful, you may demand a refund or replacement vehicle. Also, if your car is at the dealership for any repairs for a cumulative total of thirty days during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles, you may demand a refund or replacement.

The manufacturer is allowed to receive a reasonable offset for your use of the vehicle that you are having problems with. That refund offset can total no more than 10% of the purchase price of the vehicle or $.10 for each mile driven before the first reported repair. If the manufacturer cannot replace your particular model or year, you must be given a comparable vehicle of equal value.

Keep in mind that you lose your lemon law rights if the problem you are experiencing is the result of your modification to or your alteration, abuse or neglect of the vehicle.

Information about the lemon law and how to assert your rights should be found in your owner's manual. Any purchaser of a new motor vehicle who suffers any loss under this law may proceed directly to the manufacturer's arbitration program. Consumers may also bring a civil action in a court of common pleas and, in addition to other relief, are entitled to recover reasonable attorney's fees and all court costs. If you have an additional question regarding Pennsylvania's Lemon Law, please contact the Bureau of Consumer Protection at 1-800-441-2555.
O'K, fire away. Flame suit on!
Old 04-16-2014, 10:44 AM
  #24  
techman1
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Rich,

Good work on posting the black and white, clear cut law. What SHOULD be taken into account is the grey items, but I do not believe it will influence the monetary outcome. ie-
Was this his first Porsche? Frustration, so many trips to the dealer, this guys time?
Knowingly (if they did) letting him drive a car that would breakdown in traffic/intersection/ bad weather, putting his safety at risk.
And the biggest plus for Porsche in fully appeasing the claimant? Getting this out of the public forum! What do they spend yearly on advertising? Having this out there as an example of poor quality is like wasting that budget!
Old 04-16-2014, 11:10 AM
  #25  
JB 911
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Yeah nice work Rich and agree with the 3 sides. Completely agree we don't know what they offered him but it wasn't obviously enough.

Best thing he could do is get someone in his corner and get out of that and move on.

Best thing he could do for us would be to post his VIN if he hasn't already so these threads show up on the obligatory vin search any savy buyer should be doing pre purchase.

I don't think Porsche really care about RL. The few guys I know with newer Porsches don't even know what RL is and when I tell them they need to check it out they have to feign interest... MO the average new buyer spends a lot of time on the Porsche website configurator - but not here...
Old 04-16-2014, 11:12 AM
  #26  
M. Schneider
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+1 Couldn't agree more.
But hey, this is the car business and nothing is a straight line, nothing.
Someone at the manufacturer make this go away and get back to selling sports cars .... Make this guy Nick whole and move on.
NEXT .... CT is Nick's state of domicile for reference of any Lemon Law action.

PS,, The service/warranty costs (paid to dealership) have added up and are not insignificant. DONE, Fully traded! Move on, NEXT.

PSS. "You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes well you just might find
You get what you need" ...... Rolling Stones


Originally Posted by richardew
Remember, there are 3 sides to every story- his, Porsche's, the truth. I feel sorry for the guy and hope that that is the exception and not the rule .....
Edit/Delete text :
Old 04-16-2014, 11:31 AM
  #27  
Quadcammer
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he needs a lemon law attorney, not a video camera.

I woulda been done with this months ago.
Old 04-16-2014, 11:51 AM
  #28  
nathan1
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Lemon law isn't always an option. In my home State of Washington the law only covers a purchaser if the car was bought from a dealer within the State so if you were to find a nicely optioned good deal from an out of State P-car dealer but registered it back home you would get no help from our State AG and lemon law. My guess is there are other states similar.

It does amaze me that they didn't make this to away within the first month. Right or wrong for a few thousand $$ the bad PR can go away, priceless...
Old 04-16-2014, 12:05 PM
  #29  
996scott
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Holy crap that is just plain wrong! I can't even imagine Porsche not stepping up and taking care of this guy. Wow! I hope he gets it taken care of soon.
Old 04-16-2014, 12:24 PM
  #30  
laurence '97 C4S
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Couple observations.

First, as others have stated, the issue seems to be that the owner wants 100% restitution. Whether deserved or not, this is not the law. One thing you couldn't tell from the video is how many miles are on the car (is it 3,000 or 15,000).

Second, the new 911s are way too complicated electronically to own out of warranty AND based upon this guy's experience perhaps too complicated to own EVEN UNDER WARRANTY.

Third, based on personal interaction with PCNA they don't respond well to threats (ie videos on the internet, etc.). Perhaps this fellow exhausted all possibilities before he went "nuclear", but I wonder...


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