Quadcammer

ok, despite your attitude of unwillingness to share with mere mortals, I'll play along.

ITBs, sans intake, $6,000. Intake, another $6,000.

Ti rods from RUF are $4,200

That would be lets call it $16k.

$2,000 crank=$18k
$6,000 p&c=$24,000
$15k heads/cams=$39,000
$2,000 exhaust=$41,000
$3,000 motec=$44,000
$1,000 misc=$45k

Sell stock stuff, $5k

$40k. Now, I'll grant you another $3000 in machine work on the case, and a generous $7,000 for reassembly. Then I'll even give you another $5,000 in misc expenses like bearings, injectors, etc. Then another $5k to tune the thing

That leaves you at $60k

Where in gods name you think an additional $40,000 in stuff comes in, I'm simply not sure.

Additionally, The aforementioned combo better make damn well 400bhp.

I stand by my statement that you could make 350bhp out of a 3.6L for around $35k.

CalvinC4S

It's not that, I'm just going to be beat by my wife for hanging on Rennlist during peek honey do time.

Let's add a Gt3 oil pump and machining
Delver head studs
Delver rod bolts
New OEM parts:
Alternator
Fan
Fan housing
AC compressor
Bearings
Chains
Cam sprockets
Chains
Harness
Chain guides
Crank pulley
Sensors
Fly wheel

Add about 10k to the throttle body's

Add about 5k to the exhaust

Add value for the core

Add more to labor

Honestly, that motor can't be built for under a 100k.

Quadcammer

Add this point though, you have pretty much eliminated anything from the original motor besides the case.

Individual throttle bodies are $16,000? In that case, bleep that. I think the power can be made without them.

$7,000 for exhaust? how come?

While I recognize this stuff adds up, I don't think there is an additional $40k in there, especially for only 350bhp.

CalvinC4S

ITB's are ridiculously expensive, the shop I was in did butterfly valves that where over 10k. Gamroths slide valve design is pure art.

I didn't see singers exhaust, I'm sure it's top notch. Custom headers start from a mock-up motor and are cut from stainless "U" shaped blanks and tig welded to equal length. Then cats and muffler which looks like they started with a GT3 muffler. The labor involved is extensive and it isn't cheap labor. Quality fabrication can't be compared to large production products. It's a different world.

I'm going to try and dig up a picture to show the work that goes into it.

CalvinC4S

Old picture from the 90's but you get the idea. It's fabrication vs high production. It's expensive.

superquant

Here is some material that may help. Note the uprated engine is 3.8L, not 3.6.

Picture I took from the underbody of a car in progress and Specification document

http://singer.ericmcarlisle.com/wp-c...am-options.pdf

I believe very little except the case is retained from the original engine. I did not get pictures of the exhaust but it looks tremendous.

Cupcar

No heat exchangers, what does Singer do for heat?

niche

That's nice!

Flying Finn

Those orange hoses must be for heat, I'm guessing small heat exchangers at some other point of exhaust.
Have myself thought something like that since my headers dint have HE either.

Back to to Singer and price: I there is no crazy mount of "air" in the price and they're very cool cars but you could make practically the same experience with 1/2 or 1/3rd of the money.

And one super disappointing thing for me is to see general Rennline pieces in a $350K car when same pieces could be custom made very cheaply, especially when you then spend crazy amount for for example fenders that are not much different.
(nothing against Rennline, those pieces are nice)

Cupcar

One thing, the discussion here goes to how much it cost to build the Singer.

That doesn't matter, it is what Singer can sell them for that counts.

Singer just has to come up with the right sales pitch to a person with the money and desire for their car, but no time, inclination (or ability?) to do the project themselves.

And those people are out there, so the car is worth what Singer sells it for.

Vandit

You see that cylindrical thing on the left, where the 964 would typically have the rear fusebox? I believe that's some type of heater/blower device. No actual heat exchangers.




Are you referring to the rear spring plates (inboard piece of the trailing arm)? Those aren't Rennline piece. they're Smart Racing or ERP. I have some on my 964.

http://www.tarett.com/items/993-964-...plt-detail.htm

I'm surprised they are not running the protective rubber boots over the monoball ends.






It also looks like they're running an OEM RS rear swaybar and OEM droplinks, not a monoball droplink such as what is offered by Rennline. I'm pretty sure the top mounts on the Ohlins are Rennline products.

tcsracing1

That is like comparing a corvette to a ferrari. 1/3 of the money, same experience right?

But yes, a stock body 964 with a 3.8L, 6 speed, Ohlins and big brakes will still deliver the goods.

mongrelcat

Singer? Too cool.
Leno? Tool.

Singer? For fame.
Leno? Lame.

Singer? Inspirational.
Leno? Not.

I don't see how any Porsche enthusiast wouldn't love what the Singer guys are doing. I just don't understand that. As for price, it's all relative and as the saying goes, if you have to ask...

Flying Finn

Re. Rennline, I was referring to floor boards. Very easy to make,and cut for example a pattern that matches a item elsewhere: interior stitching pattern for example. Or at least pay Rennline to put Singer logo instead Rennline, we're talking peanuts when comparing to other expenses and custom touches.

Interesting heating solution.

CAlexio

Why couldn't the 993 be made to look like a 1970's car.. With the right front turn signals and read headlights and some good fiberglass molding work with bumpers it would seem like a much better starting point than 964 no?