Juha G

I have been using HANS ever since I got the 993.
Just recently a friend of mine made a comment that made me re-think using the HANS in my 993.
I have a DAS rollbar (i.e. not a full cage). He asked me if I knew what would happen if I rolled the car with myself tucked in in the 6pt harness with HANS keeping my head straight???
i.e. think about the roof collapsing from bottom of A-pillars to where the rollbar behind my seat will protect it. Draw a line between those points and see if your head still fits in with the HANS around your neck. I know mine doesn't and the HANS will not allow my head to move to the side or forward. i.e. I'd be headless...

A picture is worth a thousand words:


Since then I have not put on the HANS in my 993 (I do in my racecar which has full FIA classed cage), and will refrain from using it untill I have put in a proper cage.

certz

I have seen several 911's roll and I have never seen the A-pillar collapse significantly (millimeters at most). Not saying it has not happened or it cannot but it must take an extreme accident to cause this to happen. Our cars are extremely strong - just ask any body place that has tried to straighten one. On the other hand, having a relatively minor incident that puts excessive forces on your neck is much more likely - think about your noggen with helmet acting like a bobble-head doll in just an incident at 30 mph. IMO, wear the HANS.

Juha G

All it takes is little upside down slide. This happened to a 911 with a rollbar here very recently. Had he had a HANS on, he'd be dead...

JPS

Link? Interesting convo...

Juha G

Sorry, not posted anywhere. I can ask for a photo of the wreck though. It is for a good purpose and since the driver got out of it ok, I think no one will mind posting it up...

Flying Finn

Juha,

That's a valid concern and if I were you, I'd get a cage since you're basically only tracking that beast now and your speeds are only bound to get faster.

Your line is not correct IMO though, not that it really matters, but the line you draw should be between roll bar & nose.

Also, from your concern point of view, I don't think HANS is the biggest issue, it's the harness as even without the HANS, your head won't be able to move much.

Like I said, time to get the cage... Should've done that and the roof already when you painted!!! And the headlight washer nozzles!

P.S. WTF is that grey thing on right side of your rear bumper? Don' tell me it's a hole you patched...

Doc V.

All it takes is a little high-speed, head-on impact with a retaining barrier--a secenario with consequences that a HANS device is designed to mitigate.

What's more likely to occur--a roll-over or a high-speed impact? Risk management becomes the focus, and the driver has to assess the odds and make a decision.

Even with the DAS rollbar, I'd be wearing my HANS.

Bill Verburg

That was another reason why I had the roof and roll bar changed, I never felt comfortable w/ the top of the helmet above the bar and bouncing off the roof

Juha G

Considering the offs and situations i have had on the track a rollover is much more likely than hitting something head on. Usually on any track there are good run-off areas and not much you canhit head on. But put the car on the sand sideways (happens to me all the time) and you can easily roll the car over. Just my .02$

FullThrottle64

If you think a rollover is more likely than a frontal collision, then you need a full cage. Seriously.

FWIW, I am generally a lot more worried about things like brake failure or suddenly discovering fluid on the track than about running off the racing surface; either of those can put you into a wall or another competitor. There is also the ever-present chance of a spin in front of you that can't be avoided.

I can only think of two times I've been 4 wheels off in the last couple of years; one was in a race - avoiding contact - and the other was during qualifying for the June Sprints (I kept my foot in it and only lost a half-second that lap). If you're regularly getting off the black stuff sideways, you might want to re-consider the way you're approaching your search for faster laptimes.

morsini

Maybe you should fix this first.

daltvater

I actually just got through a self-learning process over this exact same concern Juha has presented. I've seen this debate over on Pelican for years and wanted to form my own non-internet opinion. I can’t change my oil without leaving half of it on the floor so I figured I’d poll some various grey haired vets. I ended up quizzing a few race car builders and the like at the various events over the summer. My concerns were put to rest after they all said the same thing. Hans should be worn in cars with full cage, half cage and even with a just a simple harness bar. In the event of a rollover and a roof collapse you’d still want a Hans. The odds the roof caving and your body remaining completely upright through all that force is insignificant compared to what a Hans can do to save your neck in that same accident. I basically heard for every thousand on track accidents there may be one that you’d be better off not wearing a Hans. All comes down to risk mitigation and playing the right odds. Hans for me please.

Juha G

You guys are too serious!

I do go off a couple of times a season but 9/10 it is in my race car during a wet race. Think about 50 amateurs racing in the rain at the same time in cars that cost less than 20k... yep, 4-5 wide into the corner, and usually the last one to come out is the first one to enter the next turn. Sometimes the track is just not wide enough for 4 cars... I know, rules say you must stay within the white lines but things happen when you are racing. Especially when you don't get paid for doing it (amateurs) and do it just for the kicks.

When I drive the 993, I do leave bigger margins. It all depends on the day. If it's a Porsche club DE, then I leave a big margin. If it's a practise day with race cars on the track at the same time, then the margins can be a little smaller and those are the times I push the car for the lap times.
I went of with the 993 three weeks ago, though only 1 tire... went too hot into a slow corner, car started to understeer after I got from brakes to throttle (due to the tight lock), I opened up a little and got hard on the gas. The car started to rotate properly but I ran out of track and dropped the outside rear tire off the black stuff. Nothing happened that time but had I dropper both outside tires off, then I could have spun and then there is allways the possibility to roll the car.
That said, I don't remember when I run off with the 993 prior to that, maybe 2-3 years ago.

But I guess my point is that you are more likely to roll the car then hit something head on (on a track that is).




And yes, I agree that it is all risk mitigation... Maybe the statistics tell you are better of with HANS then without it, even with just a roll bar.

In any case, there will be a proper cage in my 993 next season....

gonzilla

Tinkerbell bumpersticker???

Juha G

I was thinking more about a hello kitty band-aid...