993 pricing = insane??
07-19-2013, 12:21 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
as a porsche (non-DIY guy) who has just bot his 7th, a 2003 C4S, i've looked at LOTS of porsches over the years, and i'm not convinced that 993 will have the sustainability that some here may suggest as a collectors car that's above and beyond OTHER porsches and/or collectibles.
as many here have suggested, the 993s were dream cars for many 20 to 40 yrs olds during the mid-90's. these guys are now(myself included), in the 40 to 60 yrs old and definitely have some disposable income, thus explaining some of the demand.
that said, as i looked over the various 911 versions to buy, i see shortfalls with ALL of the various iterations and therefore, i think i'm more objective about this.
yes, the 996s do have ims/rms issues, but after a $2k fix - i think it's a GREAT car...and to me, that's waaaay better than having to worry about bent valve, o2 sensors, bad AC, old mediocre interior(but still not yet classic interior), etc...(and i think sports/upgraded exhaust sounds as good as the air cooled engine).
imho, the only 993 that's really that unique is the 96 C4S, and even those have come down in price recently from $55k down to $40k range.
bottom line, gotta find a porsche that one enjoys driving and owning, and the possible increase in value is a "plus" - and not do it as a given.
just my 2 cents.
as many here have suggested, the 993s were dream cars for many 20 to 40 yrs olds during the mid-90's. these guys are now(myself included), in the 40 to 60 yrs old and definitely have some disposable income, thus explaining some of the demand.
that said, as i looked over the various 911 versions to buy, i see shortfalls with ALL of the various iterations and therefore, i think i'm more objective about this.
yes, the 996s do have ims/rms issues, but after a $2k fix - i think it's a GREAT car...and to me, that's waaaay better than having to worry about bent valve, o2 sensors, bad AC, old mediocre interior(but still not yet classic interior), etc...(and i think sports/upgraded exhaust sounds as good as the air cooled engine).
imho, the only 993 that's really that unique is the 96 C4S, and even those have come down in price recently from $55k down to $40k range.
bottom line, gotta find a porsche that one enjoys driving and owning, and the possible increase in value is a "plus" - and not do it as a given.
just my 2 cents.
find me a nice example of a 96 C4S in the 40K range, I'll take 2.
As for the age group the 993 appeals to is completely wrong. I'm 32 and have owned my car for 4 years now with no plans on selling it(unless its a 993TT).
07-19-2013, 12:36 PM
#47
A mint non-Z variant is between $25K and $30K right now. A gorgeous citrus green one sold for $28K about 6 months ago - it was perfect! A Z will set you back $35K - $50K. If anyone is looking for a nice Muscle car, my friend in Michigan as a gorgeor real black/black L78 Chevelle with original drivetrain for $49K (I think he'll let it go for $45K). Very, very nice car.
Cfgen, I hope you got my PM the other day and I appreciate you contacting me.
Cfgen, I hope you got my PM the other day and I appreciate you contacting me.
07-19-2013, 12:46 PM
#48
Drifting
07-19-2013, 12:47 PM
#49
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Here are a few posts from a thread that was started yesterday on the Early 911 S Registry;
Original post
I just purchased this one-owner 1967 Porsche 911S Soft-window Targa, which is 4 VIN numbers off the Bahama Yellow 1967 Porsche 911S (VIN 500643s) I recently sold. This green one is an amazingly original car, so it's a difficult call what work we should do to it prior to offering it for sale. The floors and front cross member are completely solid and original. The car was purchased new and owned by a Berkeley Hills resident. It has been garaged and even the original dash is in perfect condition. The engine seems to be in good condition, and the original carburetors and red shroud are unchanged. The car came with a complete tool kit. Looking for a little advice on how to handle this car. Thanks!
Response 1
proper swf wipers / proper antenna /proper fog lights / complete service / brakes/tires/detail
ask $190,000
Response 2
I would suggest the real value of this car is between $200-$250k. Maybe more.
My thoughts ...
So I would say we are just getting started on the 993 appreciation curve, especially wide body cars.
Just my opinion, since I just bought a C2S - wishful thinking and enjoyable driving in the meantime!
And one more idea --- is this car not just a wash job and a few trim peices away from the Targa that William Hurt drove in The Big Chill ??
Original post
I just purchased this one-owner 1967 Porsche 911S Soft-window Targa, which is 4 VIN numbers off the Bahama Yellow 1967 Porsche 911S (VIN 500643s) I recently sold. This green one is an amazingly original car, so it's a difficult call what work we should do to it prior to offering it for sale. The floors and front cross member are completely solid and original. The car was purchased new and owned by a Berkeley Hills resident. It has been garaged and even the original dash is in perfect condition. The engine seems to be in good condition, and the original carburetors and red shroud are unchanged. The car came with a complete tool kit. Looking for a little advice on how to handle this car. Thanks!
Response 1
proper swf wipers / proper antenna /proper fog lights / complete service / brakes/tires/detail
ask $190,000
Response 2
I would suggest the real value of this car is between $200-$250k. Maybe more.
My thoughts ...
So I would say we are just getting started on the 993 appreciation curve, especially wide body cars.
Just my opinion, since I just bought a C2S - wishful thinking and enjoyable driving in the meantime!
And one more idea --- is this car not just a wash job and a few trim peices away from the Targa that William Hurt drove in The Big Chill ??
I'll have to disagree with comparing the 993 to the SWB 911 line. From 1964 to 1968, the factory produced a total of 16,057 911s of all flavors vs 60,000 993s. Additionally, in the '60s, there was no rust prevention program, hence many of these cars have succumbed to the oxidation gods. So supply of these early longhoods has tightened, while demand has increased amazingly. Definitely could be a bubble, time will tell.
Now I do think your C2S and the TT have the best chance for future price appreciation over the next 10-30 yrs. Again, time will tell.
If you want a guaranteed 993 winner, buy a GT1 or GT2.
07-19-2013, 12:53 PM
#50
the fact remains, the regular 993 are still very common, and i think the majority of the people prefer the wide body look. the only other "rare" 993 that i think could be valuable would be the final year (97/98 leftover) C2S.
as i said, it's my opinion and it's based on what i've seen in the (US) market place over the past 30 yrs.
PL
07-19-2013, 01:00 PM
#51
I'll have to disagree with comparing the 993 to the SWB 911 line. From 1964 to 1968, the factory produced a total of 16,057 911s of all flavors vs 60,000 993s. Additionally, in the '60s, there was no rust prevention program, hence many of these cars have succumbed to the oxidation gods. So supply of these early longhoods has tightened, while demand has increased amazingly. Definitely could be a bubble, time will tell.
Now I do think your C2S and the TT have the best chance for future price appreciation over the next 10-30 yrs. Again, time will tell.
If you want a guaranteed 993 winner, buy a GT1 or GT2.
Now I do think your C2S and the TT have the best chance for future price appreciation over the next 10-30 yrs. Again, time will tell.
If you want a guaranteed 993 winner, buy a GT1 or GT2.
I am a huge fan of the early cars but my point is that we are talking about a very nice driveable, collectible 993 C2S for a price between let's say $55,000 to $65,000.
They are totally different markets and demographics but the thought of a 67S soft window Targa being worth an additional $200,000 is the contrast I was looking at.
I would love to own both varieties !!
pcarhiway
07-19-2013, 01:08 PM
#52
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07-19-2013, 01:19 PM
#53
Another 67S priced in the stratosphere ...
price
425K
425K
07-19-2013, 01:24 PM
#54
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Jabberwocky,
I am a huge fan of the early cars but my point is that we are talking about a very nice driveable, collectible 993 C2S for a price between let's say $55,000 to $65,000.
They are totally different markets and demographics but the thought of a 67S soft window Targa being worth an additional $200,000 is the contrast I was looking at.
I would love to own both varieties !!
pcarhiway
Wish I would of bought a 246 Dino when they were selling at the same price as a low miles 993tt a few yrs ago. Now, >$200k.
07-19-2013, 01:25 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
I appreciate my 993....whether it appreciates, or not.
I think we're a long way away from any bubble, and that nice examples should hold value, if not appreciate slowly. Each year, miles should be less of a focus, as these cars get older-it's going to come down to condition and history.
SC's and Carreras are seemingly going up, if they are nice examples. Sure, it's nice to get a 60K mile example today, but if I were seriously looking, I'd not think twice about >100K miles on a nice, loved car. I think miles on those cars, outside of collector status are insignificant, for the most part, when under 150K.
I think we're a long way away from any bubble, and that nice examples should hold value, if not appreciate slowly. Each year, miles should be less of a focus, as these cars get older-it's going to come down to condition and history.
SC's and Carreras are seemingly going up, if they are nice examples. Sure, it's nice to get a 60K mile example today, but if I were seriously looking, I'd not think twice about >100K miles on a nice, loved car. I think miles on those cars, outside of collector status are insignificant, for the most part, when under 150K.
07-19-2013, 01:36 PM
#58
listed handler Porsche of America corp teaneck NJ
Original owner listed in USA otto erich filius(head of VW porsche sent by ferry in the late 50's to help eventually forn porsche NA) never street registered by him
07-19-2013, 01:41 PM
#59
Drifting
I'm completely with Ed! As time goes on so do reasonable but enjoyable memorable miles! Like my old 70's original Hotwheels when played with and properly cared for can be worth a fortune so I'm told.
I appreciate my 993....whether it appreciates, or not.
I think we're a long way away from any bubble, and that nice examples should hold value, if not appreciate slowly. Each year, miles should be less of a focus, as these cars get older-it's going to come down to condition and history.
SC's and Carreras are seemingly going up, if they are nice examples. Sure, it's nice to get a 60K mile example today, but if I were seriously looking, I'd not think twice about >100K miles on a nice, loved car. I think miles on those cars, outside of collector status are insignificant, for the most part, when under 150K.
I think we're a long way away from any bubble, and that nice examples should hold value, if not appreciate slowly. Each year, miles should be less of a focus, as these cars get older-it's going to come down to condition and history.
SC's and Carreras are seemingly going up, if they are nice examples. Sure, it's nice to get a 60K mile example today, but if I were seriously looking, I'd not think twice about >100K miles on a nice, loved car. I think miles on those cars, outside of collector status are insignificant, for the most part, when under 150K.
07-19-2013, 01:55 PM
#60
I've never thought of a 911 as currency until the last year or so. I bought a 911 to drive and to drive a lot. Such a great driver's car...
I think I can understand the collector's mentality, and I'm thankful my undesirable 95 narrowbody isn't depreciating, but it seems like a lot of effort and lack of enjoyment to tie up $50-70k in capital over the next 5+ years to possibly make $10-20K in profit before expenses (insurance, gas, maint) vs. just driving and enjoying the car for what it is...
I think I can understand the collector's mentality, and I'm thankful my undesirable 95 narrowbody isn't depreciating, but it seems like a lot of effort and lack of enjoyment to tie up $50-70k in capital over the next 5+ years to possibly make $10-20K in profit before expenses (insurance, gas, maint) vs. just driving and enjoying the car for what it is...