High Mileage 993
06-16-2013, 10:59 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
High Mileage 993
I'm looking at a 993 that has 115k miles. It's had 3 owners, but it has full service records (very detailed) and has been meticulously cared for (basically showroom condition). I'm giving it very serious consideration, but still am a little worried about the mileage. I went and drove it, and it's actually better driving than any I have driven, including one with 43k miles. It had absolutely no smoke when starting up, and had great power. I'm planning on having a PPI done on it, but wanted to get thoughts on the likelihood of it needing serious engine work soon. It's already had the clutch, lifters, and valve cover gaskets replaced.
Who out there has a high mileage 993 without major engine rebuild work? I'm baffled by how strong and tight the car felt given the mileage, and it seemed to run far better than any I have looked at.
Finally, what do you think is a fair price? Basically flawless interior (a little seat wear) and flawless exterior.
Thanks!
Who out there has a high mileage 993 without major engine rebuild work? I'm baffled by how strong and tight the car felt given the mileage, and it seemed to run far better than any I have looked at.
Finally, what do you think is a fair price? Basically flawless interior (a little seat wear) and flawless exterior.
Thanks!
06-16-2013, 11:05 PM
#2
We'd need more info to help you out, especially with price. Is it a C2, C4, C4S, C2S, Turbo etc?
Also although 115K miles seems high, in another sense it's less than 7K a year. So it's been driven, but not DRIVEN.
As long as the PPI checks out, sounds like a good car. Gotta love the full service history; that's pretty rare.
Also although 115K miles seems high, in another sense it's less than 7K a year. So it's been driven, but not DRIVEN.
As long as the PPI checks out, sounds like a good car. Gotta love the full service history; that's pretty rare.
06-16-2013, 11:06 PM
#3
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what year and model is the car?
high mileage on well maintained 993 is nothing to worry about. It can help make the price point lower.
It is actually fun to enjoy the car and see how many miles you can rack on the odo. These things can go forever.
They are soild little tanks.
high mileage on well maintained 993 is nothing to worry about. It can help make the price point lower.
It is actually fun to enjoy the car and see how many miles you can rack on the odo. These things can go forever.
They are soild little tanks.
06-16-2013, 11:44 PM
#4
RL Community Team
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A high milage car has lots of stuff already done to it.
If the example has most any aftermarket struts on it it will feel vastly better than the stock struts.
At over 100K miles you can be sure they have been replaced already:
What to consider servicing / replacing when purchasing a 993 with over 90K miles on the clock:
Lots of IF items:
• Clutch IF not done once in the past;
• 1st & 2nd gear synchros IF the gears tend to ding while shifting when the car is cold;
• Steering rack rebuild IF leaking - inspect with the under body cover off;
• Replace power steering belt IF not done once in past;
• Replacement of hydraulic lifer cartridges IF noisy at startup;
• Ignition wires - IF not done once in the past;
• Plugs - IF not done once in past
• Strut cartridges if suspension sits low or seems harsh on bumpy roads,
• IF car has over 70K miles on it likely have replacement struts already that can be rebuilt at a substantial savings over replacing - save $2000;
• Tie rod ends if play is present - if end boots are cracked just replace the boots.
• Suspension bushings IF car does not feel tight after an alignment;
• Distributor belt replacement if not done once in the past;
• Odometer gear replacement if odometer is not working or not done once in past;
• Air Flow sensor and idle valve should be cleaned. The sensor will need to be cleaned with a Q-tip as just spraying it out will not release the grey debris coating on the sensor element, the element when clean looks like a white circuit board.
Be aware that the clutch and transmission can be serviced on a 993 without removing the engine. Some technicians neglect to tell you this and want to charge you for the labor on a full engine out.
Also the 993 has OBDC so if the ignition wires were bad or the rotor or cap are bad or the plugs are fouled the light will likely be on.
If the car starts easily and runs reliably do not consider any actions that involves internal engine repairs. A slight cycling of the RPM on cold days, a small stumble on acceleration when the engine is cold or in very hot weather, an engine that uses some oil between oil changes, this is normal stuff.
And most importantly don’t go Neurotic, just enjoy the car!
You know the line, “accept the things I should not fix, have courage to fix the things I must and have the wisdom to know the difference”
Andy
At over 100K miles you can be sure they have been replaced already:
What to consider servicing / replacing when purchasing a 993 with over 90K miles on the clock:
Lots of IF items:
• Clutch IF not done once in the past;
• 1st & 2nd gear synchros IF the gears tend to ding while shifting when the car is cold;
• Steering rack rebuild IF leaking - inspect with the under body cover off;
• Replace power steering belt IF not done once in past;
• Replacement of hydraulic lifer cartridges IF noisy at startup;
• Ignition wires - IF not done once in the past;
• Plugs - IF not done once in past
• Strut cartridges if suspension sits low or seems harsh on bumpy roads,
• IF car has over 70K miles on it likely have replacement struts already that can be rebuilt at a substantial savings over replacing - save $2000;
• Tie rod ends if play is present - if end boots are cracked just replace the boots.
• Suspension bushings IF car does not feel tight after an alignment;
• Distributor belt replacement if not done once in the past;
• Odometer gear replacement if odometer is not working or not done once in past;
• Air Flow sensor and idle valve should be cleaned. The sensor will need to be cleaned with a Q-tip as just spraying it out will not release the grey debris coating on the sensor element, the element when clean looks like a white circuit board.
Be aware that the clutch and transmission can be serviced on a 993 without removing the engine. Some technicians neglect to tell you this and want to charge you for the labor on a full engine out.
Also the 993 has OBDC so if the ignition wires were bad or the rotor or cap are bad or the plugs are fouled the light will likely be on.
If the car starts easily and runs reliably do not consider any actions that involves internal engine repairs. A slight cycling of the RPM on cold days, a small stumble on acceleration when the engine is cold or in very hot weather, an engine that uses some oil between oil changes, this is normal stuff.
And most importantly don’t go Neurotic, just enjoy the car!
You know the line, “accept the things I should not fix, have courage to fix the things I must and have the wisdom to know the difference”
Andy
06-17-2013, 12:15 AM
#5
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If the example has most any aftermarket struts on it it will feel vastly better than the stock struts.
At over 100K miles you can be sure they have been replaced already:
What to consider servicing / replacing when purchasing a 993 with over 90K miles on the clock:
Lots of IF items:
• Clutch IF not done once in the past;
• 1st & 2nd gear synchros IF the gears tend to ding while shifting when the car is cold;
• Steering rack rebuild IF leaking - inspect with the under body cover off;
• Replace power steering belt IF not done once in past;
• Replacement of hydraulic lifer cartridges IF noisy at startup;
• Ignition wires - IF not done once in the past;
• Plugs - IF not done once in past
• Strut cartridges if suspension sits low or seems harsh on bumpy roads,
• IF car has over 70K miles on it likely have replacement struts already that can be rebuilt at a substantial savings over replacing - save $2000;
• Tie rod ends if play is present - if end boots are cracked just replace the boots.
• Suspension bushings IF car does not feel tight after an alignment;
• Distributor belt replacement if not done once in the past;
• Odometer gear replacement if odometer is not working or not done once in past;
• Air Flow sensor and idle valve should be cleaned. The sensor will need to be cleaned with a Q-tip as just spraying it out will not release the grey debris coating on the sensor element, the element when clean looks like a white circuit board.
Be aware that the clutch and transmission can be serviced on a 993 without removing the engine. Some technicians neglect to tell you this and want to charge you for the labor on a full engine out.
Also the 993 has OBDC so if the ignition wires were bad or the rotor or cap are bad or the plugs are fouled the light will likely be on.
If the car starts easily and runs reliably do not consider any actions that involves internal engine repairs. A slight cycling of the RPM on cold days, a small stumble on acceleration when the engine is cold or in very hot weather, an engine that uses some oil between oil changes, this is normal stuff.
And most importantly don’t go Neurotic, just enjoy the car!
You know the line, “accept the things I should not fix, have courage to fix the things I must and have the wisdom to know the difference”
Andy
At over 100K miles you can be sure they have been replaced already:
What to consider servicing / replacing when purchasing a 993 with over 90K miles on the clock:
Lots of IF items:
• Clutch IF not done once in the past;
• 1st & 2nd gear synchros IF the gears tend to ding while shifting when the car is cold;
• Steering rack rebuild IF leaking - inspect with the under body cover off;
• Replace power steering belt IF not done once in past;
• Replacement of hydraulic lifer cartridges IF noisy at startup;
• Ignition wires - IF not done once in the past;
• Plugs - IF not done once in past
• Strut cartridges if suspension sits low or seems harsh on bumpy roads,
• IF car has over 70K miles on it likely have replacement struts already that can be rebuilt at a substantial savings over replacing - save $2000;
• Tie rod ends if play is present - if end boots are cracked just replace the boots.
• Suspension bushings IF car does not feel tight after an alignment;
• Distributor belt replacement if not done once in the past;
• Odometer gear replacement if odometer is not working or not done once in past;
• Air Flow sensor and idle valve should be cleaned. The sensor will need to be cleaned with a Q-tip as just spraying it out will not release the grey debris coating on the sensor element, the element when clean looks like a white circuit board.
Be aware that the clutch and transmission can be serviced on a 993 without removing the engine. Some technicians neglect to tell you this and want to charge you for the labor on a full engine out.
Also the 993 has OBDC so if the ignition wires were bad or the rotor or cap are bad or the plugs are fouled the light will likely be on.
If the car starts easily and runs reliably do not consider any actions that involves internal engine repairs. A slight cycling of the RPM on cold days, a small stumble on acceleration when the engine is cold or in very hot weather, an engine that uses some oil between oil changes, this is normal stuff.
And most importantly don’t go Neurotic, just enjoy the car!
You know the line, “accept the things I should not fix, have courage to fix the things I must and have the wisdom to know the difference”
Andy
06-17-2013, 01:27 AM
#7
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I wouldn't consider 115k miles high mileage on a 15+ year old 911, as these cars are meant to be driven.
I bought mine last year with about 173k and now it is about 300 miles shy of 180. Doesn't smoke one bit and it pulls very strong. Never had an engine or top-end rebuild. First owner drove it 20k miles/year for 5 years before selling it. I did buy it with the intention of keeping it forever so I know it will need work eventually. Oh and as yours, mine had full service history which to me is more important than basically anything else.
I bought mine last year with about 173k and now it is about 300 miles shy of 180. Doesn't smoke one bit and it pulls very strong. Never had an engine or top-end rebuild. First owner drove it 20k miles/year for 5 years before selling it. I did buy it with the intention of keeping it forever so I know it will need work eventually. Oh and as yours, mine had full service history which to me is more important than basically anything else.
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06-17-2013, 01:34 AM
#8
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Good to hear, I'm actually planning on using it was a daily driver, so I anticipate it will need work at some point down the road, but its good to hear how long some of these go without ever needing an engine rebuild.
06-17-2013, 02:23 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
115 really isn't high miles and you are better off buying a car with 110,000+ miles than 80,000 miles since most likely everything that could have gone wrong and or broke, has already been fixed.
06-17-2013, 11:01 AM
#11
Race Car
I bought mine with 118,500 6 years ago. Paid $24,500. Had every receipt since new, and it was bone stock. Also a 3 owner car. Clutch had been done at 75,000 miles (it was a San Fransico car.) Otherwise it was original.
It needed the ballast resistors (oil and AC) right away. I thought it drove nicely, but after reading on here about the shocks probably being worn I switched them to bilstein HD and it was magic. One engine mount was collapsed so i replaced with the Wevo blues. Everything else I've done has been wear items or slippery slope mods for the track. Mine is still my daily driver, as well as my track car for DE.
I rolled over 171,000 miles yesterday. No engine work has been done on the car, other than gaskets, seals, plugs and wires, etc... It pulls just as strong on the straights at Sebring as a new car with similar advertised HP (Boxter)
To make you feel even better, look up a thread on this page titled "295,000" or something similar. "Richardew" is fast approaching 300,000 miles on his daily driver 993. No major engine work. These cars like to be driven.
It needed the ballast resistors (oil and AC) right away. I thought it drove nicely, but after reading on here about the shocks probably being worn I switched them to bilstein HD and it was magic. One engine mount was collapsed so i replaced with the Wevo blues. Everything else I've done has been wear items or slippery slope mods for the track. Mine is still my daily driver, as well as my track car for DE.
I rolled over 171,000 miles yesterday. No engine work has been done on the car, other than gaskets, seals, plugs and wires, etc... It pulls just as strong on the straights at Sebring as a new car with similar advertised HP (Boxter)
To make you feel even better, look up a thread on this page titled "295,000" or something similar. "Richardew" is fast approaching 300,000 miles on his daily driver 993. No major engine work. These cars like to be driven.
06-17-2013, 12:44 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
I am around 115k on my car now, and the clutch is starting to feel like this may be the last season on it. Other than that, the car runs strong, feels tight, and is a pleasure to drive. I wouldn't hesitate on a cross country road trip with it. As others have said, it 115k may seem like a high number, but these cars are built to last and be driven, so for a daily driver, shouldn't be too much concern if everything checks out.
06-17-2013, 02:28 PM
#13
Drifting
I'm looking at a 993 that has 115k miles. It's had 3 owners, but it has full service records (very detailed) and has been meticulously cared for (basically showroom condition).
....it's actually better driving than any I have driven, including one with 43k miles.
....It's already had the clutch, lifters, and valve cover gaskets replaced.
....I'm baffled by how strong and tight the car felt given the mileage, and it seemed to run far better than any I have looked at.
....it's actually better driving than any I have driven, including one with 43k miles.
....It's already had the clutch, lifters, and valve cover gaskets replaced.
....I'm baffled by how strong and tight the car felt given the mileage, and it seemed to run far better than any I have looked at.
297,495!!!! Richard is an inspiration! I love reading his posts with mileage updates. Don't baby the car, drive it. I bought my first 911 with 175k miles on it and it ran flawlessly the next 3 years I owned it, and my 993 was just a baby with 88k when I bought her. These cars were not built as 100kmi disposables like you might be used to with many other makes.
06-17-2013, 03:12 PM
#14
R.I.P
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
115,000 miles. LOL That's not high miles. If taken care of they last. I don't baby mine at all. I just make sure that I warm it up properly EVERY TIME I drive it and I have been the only driver.
06-17-2013, 03:53 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
If you go ahead with the PPI make sure they do both a leak down and a compression test. These will tell you about the health of the engine and they only cost a couple hundred bucks. And be sure to ask the mechanic where the leak is coming from if any are detected. Post the results here and we can tell you the type of costs you are looking at, if any.
Seriously, I would not buy a 993 without these tests.
Seriously, I would not buy a 993 without these tests.