TRM

Thanks to those on here who have posted their speakers upgrades and installs over the years, very helpful.

Looking at doing the Focal 6.5". What I'm not sure of is if I should spring for regular co-axials or 2-way Focals for the front? The price difference is significant. Any advice.

My existing fronts are blown, dried out and cracked. I don't need amazing sound, just something that works.

JPS

I just ordered these this am. Seems a good deal. http://apicdn.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=057888017270bbd617675cd75f080b26&loc=http%3A%2F%2Ffo rums.rennlist.com%2Frennforums%2Fapi.php%3Fapi_c%3D460%26api_v%3D3%26api _m%3Dprivate_showpm%26api_s%3D12d2fc96cd2431b005c006beab3da268%26pmid%3D 3418999%26api_sig%3D0455a71a844b69ac0ff000a5ffd8290a&out=http%3A%2F%2Fww w.sonicelectronix.com%2Fitem_7755_Focal-165-A1.html

JPS

I'll have to repost that while not mobile.

95_993

I went with the 2-way. Really easy to fit tweeters behind factory speaker grills. Used Focal grills on 6.5's

95_993

Fixed it for ya.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...al-165-A1.html

JPS

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...al-165-A1.html

Ordered this am.

TRM

JPS, there's another thread I found a while back where someone easily fit the 6-1/2" Focals in the front. He even posted a picture showing the modification to the area where the clips hold the speaker - you basically had to file away about 1/8" to 1/4" of material where the clips sit. If I can find the thread I'll link it here.

JPS

Great. I had it open and my laptop crashed. I have to go hunting again...

TRM

JPS, here it is.

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...grade-fyi.html

M. Schneider

TRM -
I would use a coax 6.5 speaker as a replacement, this way the need for a outboard frequency dividing network is eleminated. The good/better/best quality coax will have a simple crossover byway of a capacitor strapped to the woofer's frame et cetra. The factory tweeter pods are located, acoustically speaking, miles away from a cohesive position to the main 6.5" (5.25"stock) speaker which performs most if not all the work. Remember,,, the 3/4" tweeters are crossed over way out there at 4khz to 4.5khz and cannot truthfully operate much lower than the 4Khz range because of there size/type.
A 6.5" mid-bass w/coax tweeter arrangement can audibly blow way a similar 6.5" mid-bass and 3/4" tweeter when installed at the OEM pod's position. The coax is cost effective in both time and money.

daiys

TRM thats my post. I would pay the extra bucks and get the components. Its only $20 or so. Since many of us won't put a sub in the car it worth the investment to put the best speakers you can in the doors. Also components allow the woofer to focus on providing lows instead of doing both low and high freqs. Components also allow for more flexibility and tuning with the on board crossover. That being said, my Focals are very clear and sound great. They also sound good without a amp. Make sure you drill the screws all the way into the metal of the doors. Otherwise they will rattle a bit.

JPS

That's the one, THX. Bookmarked it this time.
In the past I spent days listening to individual speaker combos. This time I went with what fits easily, given my mods and the effect they will have on stereo sound quality.

I went with the Pioneer DEH-80PRS, Polk DB461 in the rear, and waiting for the Focal 165 A1 6.5" component to arrive. If I need a little power, I have an old Rockford Fosgate Punch 75 for the fronts, or I'm considering the little Alpine amp that sits inline behind the deck. But I'm trying with no amp first.

M. Schneider

I'm afraid the above is factually incorrect. Here's why: A crossover frequency of 4Khz to 4,5khz is selected in either a coax or 2 way component speaker arrangement as used in car stereo.
In either scenario there is a 6.5” mid woofer and a ¾” tweeter. In the coax arrangement the ¾” tweeter is co-axial mounted to the very same 6.5” mid-woofer used in the component arrangement.
In either arrangement there is a 6.5” mid-woofer and a ¾” tweeter. Location, location, location. A Coax Speaker benefit is both mid-woofer and tweeter share a concentric acoustic center. In our 993's the tweeter pod is located miles away from the 6.5 mid-woofer which is working from say 75hz all the way out to 4.5khz; that’s 97% of all acoustic energy heard. I’m just saying.

daiys

Mike,
My point is two fold. The Focal components have a crossover that allows you to adjust the levels of the tweeters. The gives you flexibility that the coaxials don't. Second the Focal coaxial have a rod that hosts the tweeter and that rod runs right thru the center of the woofer. A woofer with a 3/4 in hole in it takes away its ability to really produce lows as much as a woofer that doesn't. That is was I meant about allowing the woofer to focus on just being a woofer not both.


JPS,
I agree that the coaxials are very easy to install. I just made those minor mods to the door card with the dremel. It did not require removing the door panels just the door pocket so I could access the speaker.
D

M. Schneider

Hey daiys top of the morning to ya - It is St. Paddy's day after all.

All good points to be sure, however most all dynamic drivers (speakers) share a hollow center architecture. It’s simply a motor assembly design constant; the voice coils diameter. In terms of acoustic energy propagated there’s nothing lost by utilizing the center of a dynamic driver, and in general terms the coax principal is ideal. Examples are Tannoy's Dual Concentric, KEF's, UREI 813's, and there's many more using a coax mouse trap.

In HiFi 2-way applications the crossover can manage more than simple frequency division and amplitude instruction. – as in the 993’s 6.5” mid-woofer and ¾” tweeter,, a 6.5” mid-woofer crossed over at 4Khz to 4.5Khz is performing 97% of what we hear. Its works great! The tweeter not so much, even with 3db of amplitude control by way of a crossover networks L-pad control. The simple point is the tweeter in our cars stereo isn’t adding much. 4Khz or 4.5Khz is way into the high frequency of music but yet our cars ¾” tweeter doesn’t kick in until then. The 6.5 mid-woofer does 97% of the work. Yeah,,,, I know. The marketing guys have educated the buying public to believe otherwise. I’m just saying.

I’ll post a picture to a set of world class audio monitors to illustrate the point. In these 2-way systems the mid-woofer is really accomplishing all the audio resolution.

http://www.atc.gb.net
We use the active 2-way model SCM20ASL Pro to support R/L audio channels in several plasma screen setup's. And large SCM100ASL (active) elsewhere. In either a 2-way or 3-way driver arrangement the tweeter only comes in above or close to 3Khz... That's pretty high up the frequency ladder of our hearing.

Attached is a picture of an ATC brand active SCM100ASL that I work with when at home, notice the mid-range dome driver/wave guide assembly. The mid range operates btw 380hz on the low side and all the way up to about 3.5khz on the high side where the tweeter kicks in.

In our 993's speaker arrangement the (stock 5.25") 6.5" mid-woofer operates in a very wide bandwidth by comparison, say from 65hz on the low side, up to 4.5Khz on the high side,,, where only then the 3/4" tweeter starts to operate. The piont made is the better of the two, coax or 2 way component, is the coax has a leg up simply by way of the woofer/tweeter orientation. In our 993s 2-way the tweeter isnt heard from very much. Couldn't do without... however not so very criticle. Both work great in a car.

The smaller ATC 20 is a 2-way active arrangement where the 6.5" mid-woofer does all the work from 60hz (-6db down and -2db down @80hz. 108db SPL continuous @ 1 meter) to a crossover piont of 2.8Khz handing off to the tweeter. The 6.5" mid-woofer is doing most all the work, acoustically speaking. (driven by an onboard amp - 250w RMS Class A and the tweeter a 50w RMS Class A, respectively. The crossover network is active)
Granted these are active designs where cost is secondary and performance, execution is primary. Tools of the trade or the equivalent of Snap On tools for a mechanic. Either, OR - bring money.