Fabspeed cats to receive CARB approval!
01-19-2014, 04:16 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
Thanks for the suggestion ...at $125 for the cats, the cost is right. 
Did you modify your existing cats or fabricate a new crossover? Any photos?
Did you modify your existing cats or fabricate a new crossover? Any photos?
The OEM cats are about a 400 cpi metallic substrate. It will be tough to push a 200cpi substrate through the CARB approval process. 1996+ OBDII cars require Tier1 cert standards which are specific to the vehicle model/engine combination. It's a long expensive process and there is a lot more to it than just proving that the tailpipe emissions are okay. AFAIK there are no metallic CARB approved aftermarket catalytic converters available.
FWIW I run these on my car: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Magnaflow...-/171124349307 and just passed smog easily, fortunately the smog referee never peaked under the engine.
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FWIW I run these on my car: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Magnaflow...-/171124349307 and just passed smog easily, fortunately the smog referee never peaked under the engine.
01-19-2014, 06:15 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
01-19-2014, 06:22 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Ted,
I fabricated my own exhaust. They weren't quite identical to the ones that I showed in the link, they have the same 100 cell brick in them, but mine were straight on one end and angled on the other (see pic). I necked down the 2.50 in/out to 2.25" with a flared adapter. You could definitely use the ones sold online though and have a fab shop fit them up.
I fabricated my own exhaust. They weren't quite identical to the ones that I showed in the link, they have the same 100 cell brick in them, but mine were straight on one end and angled on the other (see pic). I necked down the 2.50 in/out to 2.25" with a flared adapter. You could definitely use the ones sold online though and have a fab shop fit them up.
01-19-2014, 06:32 PM
#34
Instructor
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Los Angeles
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Cali owners
Specific question to Cali owners... my car is a late 95' so OBD1... some of you have this Fabspeed mod and have passed smog so far, so I am inclined to risk it, also
mgianzero, you state
Why? Is it because they don't do visual on OBD1 cars?
Or because they don't have O2 ports after the cat as chaoscreature pointed out... this might also be an indicator why there are 2 part numbers for the Bischoff versions, as you stated previously... maybe one with and the other without O2 sensor ports after the cat? I can see on videos and pix from Fabspeed there is a version with the ports after the CAT for sure, just not sure about without.
ewc911, this was my thought as well... if they are not that diligent at looking (my last guy did not check it) and it passed the smog, then add some camo.... i.e. put the underbody engine cover back on; they might not be as axious to get under, if it looks all sealed up. That might be one reason to save that stupid thing...
mgianzero, you state
Why? Is it because they don't do visual on OBD1 cars?
Or because they don't have O2 ports after the cat as chaoscreature pointed out... this might also be an indicator why there are 2 part numbers for the Bischoff versions, as you stated previously... maybe one with and the other without O2 sensor ports after the cat? I can see on videos and pix from Fabspeed there is a version with the ports after the CAT for sure, just not sure about without.
Fwiw the fabspeed 200 cell cats will pass ca emissions. I know it fails the visual but if the operator isn't that knowledgeable it wouldn't be a problem. My car was purchased with 200 cell cats and a Steve Weiner chip and passed the emissions portion with flying colors. I was lucky the tech wasn't that thorough, so I passed visual too. YMMV.
01-20-2014, 06:09 PM
#36
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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These look really interesting and well made... you passed smog OK? Did you do the work yourself or do you have a shop in SoCal you used... might be interested in making a set 
Ted,
I fabricated my own exhaust. They weren't quite identical to the ones that I showed in the link, they have the same 100 cell brick in them, but mine were straight on one end and angled on the other (see pic). I necked down the 2.50 in/out to 2.25" with a flared adapter. You could definitely use the ones sold online though and have a fab shop fit them up.
I fabricated my own exhaust. They weren't quite identical to the ones that I showed in the link, they have the same 100 cell brick in them, but mine were straight on one end and angled on the other (see pic). I necked down the 2.50 in/out to 2.25" with a flared adapter. You could definitely use the ones sold online though and have a fab shop fit them up.
01-20-2014, 06:38 PM
#37
I did forget to mention that my car is also a 95 car with OBD1. I'm not exactly sure what the difference in visual inspection between an OBD1 and OBD2, but I recall reading a number of threads where people passed both visual and tailpipe with 200 cell cats on a '95, specifically with fabspeed and dach.
Since I bought the car from out of state and hadn't even thought about the smogging the car I was very nervous about the whole smog process. Turned out to be a non issue for me, though admittedly there may have been some luck involved in this.
Since I bought the car from out of state and hadn't even thought about the smogging the car I was very nervous about the whole smog process. Turned out to be a non issue for me, though admittedly there may have been some luck involved in this.
Specific question to Cali owners... my car is a late 95' so OBD1... some of you have this Fabspeed mod and have passed smog so far, so I am inclined to risk it, also
mgianzero, you state
Why? Is it because they don't do visual on OBD1 cars?
Or because they don't have O2 ports after the cat as chaoscreature pointed out... this might also be an indicator why there are 2 part numbers for the Bischoff versions, as you stated previously... maybe one with and the other without O2 sensor ports after the cat? I can see on videos and pix from Fabspeed there is a version with the ports after the CAT for sure, just not sure about without.
ewc911, this was my thought as well... if they are not that diligent at looking (my last guy did not check it) and it passed the smog, then add some camo.... i.e. put the underbody engine cover back on; they might not be as axious to get under, if it looks all sealed up. That might be one reason to save that stupid thing...
mgianzero, you state
Why? Is it because they don't do visual on OBD1 cars?
Or because they don't have O2 ports after the cat as chaoscreature pointed out... this might also be an indicator why there are 2 part numbers for the Bischoff versions, as you stated previously... maybe one with and the other without O2 sensor ports after the cat? I can see on videos and pix from Fabspeed there is a version with the ports after the CAT for sure, just not sure about without.
ewc911, this was my thought as well... if they are not that diligent at looking (my last guy did not check it) and it passed the smog, then add some camo.... i.e. put the underbody engine cover back on; they might not be as axious to get under, if it looks all sealed up. That might be one reason to save that stupid thing...
01-20-2014, 06:39 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Blacksparrow,
I made them myself, but I worked for an exhaust mfg. at the time so I had access to scrap bent pipe. I am an enthusiastic hobbiest, not a professional welder so they look nicer from a few feet away!
If you want to make something for yourself, you are welcome to come down and borrow the exhaust welding fixture. It has a loose clamp or two now from getting moved around but it's still serviceable.
You will need to have the ball flares for connecting the mufflers made at a shop unless you have some neat-o tooling.
I made them myself, but I worked for an exhaust mfg. at the time so I had access to scrap bent pipe. I am an enthusiastic hobbiest, not a professional welder so they look nicer from a few feet away!
If you want to make something for yourself, you are welcome to come down and borrow the exhaust welding fixture. It has a loose clamp or two now from getting moved around but it's still serviceable.
You will need to have the ball flares for connecting the mufflers made at a shop unless you have some neat-o tooling.
01-20-2014, 07:20 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
ESC911,
The emissions requirements for an OBDII car are more strict than those for an OBDI car.
Further if the OBDI car triggers a fault code with the downstream O2 sensors it's an automatic fail. You can run "dummy" O2 sensors or reprogram the ECU to get rid of the CEL but you can't fool the sniffer test. That being said your cat has to be completely useless to fail the sniff test if your car is running in good condition and fully warmed up.
I am not sure how CARB decides who gets to take the easier BAR-90 test (two speed idle test) and who gets to put their car on a dyno (ASM 5015 and ASM 2525) but I know the ASM tests are more difficult to pass.
I will let you guys have some fun with these two links:
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARRe...e-Jan_2007.pdf
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/pubwebqu.../ShowMake.aspx
The first link shows the requirements for the stationary test. The 2nd link lets you pick your car and shows the requirements for your specific vehicle. The tests ARE more stringent for 1996+ vehicles.
The emissions requirements for an OBDII car are more strict than those for an OBDI car.
Further if the OBDI car triggers a fault code with the downstream O2 sensors it's an automatic fail. You can run "dummy" O2 sensors or reprogram the ECU to get rid of the CEL but you can't fool the sniffer test. That being said your cat has to be completely useless to fail the sniff test if your car is running in good condition and fully warmed up.
I am not sure how CARB decides who gets to take the easier BAR-90 test (two speed idle test) and who gets to put their car on a dyno (ASM 5015 and ASM 2525) but I know the ASM tests are more difficult to pass.
I will let you guys have some fun with these two links:
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARRe...e-Jan_2007.pdf
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/pubwebqu.../ShowMake.aspx
The first link shows the requirements for the stationary test. The 2nd link lets you pick your car and shows the requirements for your specific vehicle. The tests ARE more stringent for 1996+ vehicles.
01-20-2014, 07:56 PM
#40
ESC911,
The emissions requirements for an OBDII car are more strict than those for an OBDI car.
Further if the OBDI car triggers a fault code with the downstream O2 sensors it's an automatic fail. You can run "dummy" O2 sensors or reprogram the ECU to get rid of the CEL but you can't fool the sniffer test. That being said your cat has to be completely useless to fail the sniff test if your car is running in good condition and fully warmed up.
I am not sure how CARB decides who gets to take the easier BAR-90 test (two speed idle test) and who gets to put their car on a dyno (ASM 5015 and ASM 2525) but I know the ASM tests are more difficult to pass.
I will let you guys have some fun with these two links:
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARRe...e-Jan_2007.pdf
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/pubwebqu.../ShowMake.aspx
The first link shows the requirements for the stationary test. The 2nd link lets you pick your car and shows the requirements for your specific vehicle. The tests ARE more stringent for 1996+ vehicles.
The emissions requirements for an OBDII car are more strict than those for an OBDI car.
Further if the OBDI car triggers a fault code with the downstream O2 sensors it's an automatic fail. You can run "dummy" O2 sensors or reprogram the ECU to get rid of the CEL but you can't fool the sniffer test. That being said your cat has to be completely useless to fail the sniff test if your car is running in good condition and fully warmed up.
I am not sure how CARB decides who gets to take the easier BAR-90 test (two speed idle test) and who gets to put their car on a dyno (ASM 5015 and ASM 2525) but I know the ASM tests are more difficult to pass.
I will let you guys have some fun with these two links:
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARRe...e-Jan_2007.pdf
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/pubwebqu.../ShowMake.aspx
The first link shows the requirements for the stationary test. The 2nd link lets you pick your car and shows the requirements for your specific vehicle. The tests ARE more stringent for 1996+ vehicles.
After having been directed to a Star Certification Station for my 96, my car underwent what seemed to be vigorous visual inspection, although I couldn't tell you if the tech actually knew what he was doing...
I found it interesting that my car was subjected to the easier BAR-90 test (two speed idle test) and not on a dyno (ASM 5015 and ASM 2525) test.
I would have liked to have had the more stringent test done so as to establish a baseline as to how my car was running, when subjected to the dyno tests.
P.S. Clean install on your cats...Function before flash! Nice job!
01-20-2014, 08:04 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
Nine9six,
I thought it was great when I took my Cayman in for a smog test. They couldn't figure out how to see the engine, so the guy just checked everything as "passed". I think they do that with the 993 as well, they poke around but most smog techs have no idea where stuff is on these engines. If things look "stock" they make assumptions and just pass everything. I got lucky and the guy never got on his knees to check the cats.
If you are really curious to see the emissions levels most smog places will perform a "pre-inspection" service for a discounted price.
FWIW, if you have a C4 you pretty much have an automatic pass on the dyno since there are very few smog dyno's that can handle the AWD system. I will post my emissions scores tonight when I get home.
I thought it was great when I took my Cayman in for a smog test. They couldn't figure out how to see the engine, so the guy just checked everything as "passed". I think they do that with the 993 as well, they poke around but most smog techs have no idea where stuff is on these engines. If things look "stock" they make assumptions and just pass everything. I got lucky and the guy never got on his knees to check the cats.
If you are really curious to see the emissions levels most smog places will perform a "pre-inspection" service for a discounted price.
FWIW, if you have a C4 you pretty much have an automatic pass on the dyno since there are very few smog dyno's that can handle the AWD system. I will post my emissions scores tonight when I get home.
01-20-2014, 08:21 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Blacksparrow,
I made them myself, but I worked for an exhaust mfg. at the time so I had access to scrap bent pipe. I am an enthusiastic hobbiest, not a professional welder so they look nicer from a few feet away!
If you want to make something for yourself, you are welcome to come down and borrow the exhaust welding fixture. It has a loose clamp or two now from getting moved around but it's still serviceable.
You will need to have the ball flares for connecting the mufflers made at a shop unless you have some neat-o tooling.
I made them myself, but I worked for an exhaust mfg. at the time so I had access to scrap bent pipe. I am an enthusiastic hobbiest, not a professional welder so they look nicer from a few feet away!
If you want to make something for yourself, you are welcome to come down and borrow the exhaust welding fixture. It has a loose clamp or two now from getting moved around but it's still serviceable.
You will need to have the ball flares for connecting the mufflers made at a shop unless you have some neat-o tooling.
You never cease to amaze me with all your talents. Aluminum milling a steering rack brace, disassembling and repair your GBox, making a tie rod pinning tool (I still have it in my garage for anyone who wants it) and now tig welding your own exhaust! I say you open a shop and run with it!
01-20-2014, 08:28 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Specific question to Cali owners... my car is a late 95' so OBD1... some of you have this Fabspeed mod and have passed smog so far, so I am inclined to risk it, also
mgianzero, you state
Why? Is it because they don't do visual on OBD1 cars?
ewc911, this was my thought as well... if they are not that diligent at looking (my last guy did not check it) and it passed the smog, then add some camo.... i.e. put the underbody engine cover back on; they might not be as axious to get under, if it looks all sealed up. That might be one reason to save that stupid thing...
mgianzero, you state
Why? Is it because they don't do visual on OBD1 cars?
ewc911, this was my thought as well... if they are not that diligent at looking (my last guy did not check it) and it passed the smog, then add some camo.... i.e. put the underbody engine cover back on; they might not be as axious to get under, if it looks all sealed up. That might be one reason to save that stupid thing...
My experience, living in California for about 20 years, they don't seem to do as thorough a visual check on OBDI cars compared to OBD2. As soon as they see that 1996 and newer MY, they pursue what I note as a much more thorough test. Maybe that's just my observation, but I think it's fairly accurate.
01-21-2014, 01:29 AM
#44
Nordschleife Master
Peter,
Great job on the exhaust fabrication project. I think you may have a business opportunity with the jig setup for the 993 ... I would be the first in line
Great job on the exhaust fabrication project. I think you may have a business opportunity with the jig setup for the 993 ... I would be the first in line
Ted,
I fabricated my own exhaust. They weren't quite identical to the ones that I showed in the link, they have the same 100 cell brick in them, but mine were straight on one end and angled on the other (see pic). I necked down the 2.50 in/out to 2.25" with a flared adapter. You could definitely use the ones sold online though and have a fab shop fit them up.
I fabricated my own exhaust. They weren't quite identical to the ones that I showed in the link, they have the same 100 cell brick in them, but mine were straight on one end and angled on the other (see pic). I necked down the 2.50 in/out to 2.25" with a flared adapter. You could definitely use the ones sold online though and have a fab shop fit them up.
01-21-2014, 01:51 AM
#45
Race Director
Chaos, I'm in O'side. What smog shop did you go to? I'm looking for the crappiest, lamest, worst-trained one I can find. One where maybe a $100 on the side passes a visual.
Unfortunately I got Fabspeed cats installed before I knew about the visual... I thought it was just sniffer. The shop that installed them, and Fabspeed, both said they would pass smog when I asked, but I guess neither were honest.
Ed, I had to do a STAR-certified smog test for my '05 Hyundai last month. What a rip... they charge twice as much. Exact same tests.
Unfortunately I got Fabspeed cats installed before I knew about the visual... I thought it was just sniffer. The shop that installed them, and Fabspeed, both said they would pass smog when I asked, but I guess neither were honest.
Ed, I had to do a STAR-certified smog test for my '05 Hyundai last month. What a rip... they charge twice as much. Exact same tests.