ToSi

where? Link or PM me re: one of these please..

JDHertz11

My friend bought the blue 360 in the video for $52K. Its a converted Euro car with some paint work, but no crashes...

djantlive

yes, higher mileage and history cars are definitely available in the 55-65k range. anything prestine with lower mileage (20k mi or under) will be 70-85k range. still great values but you need to budget at least $5k for repairs in the first year or two.

Ice9

Many of the claims made in this post about the 360 are simply false.

For example, I have never personally experienced "weeks" when needing parts. In fact, it has never taken more than 2 days.

Also, the Ferrari dealer DOES give loaners just like the Audi dealer.

Poor craftsmanship would be contrary to the claims made in the recent Forza magazine review of the 360.

Also doesn't recognize that the OP is talking about a second car not their only car.

And its not called the f360, its simply the 360. The 430 however is called the F430.

It is amazing how some people are willing to post baseless claims on this forum. Cheapens it for all of us.

David993S

I've kind of been staying out of this thread after posting some earlier comments. No matter what actual owners (like me) post people seem to perpetuate the innacurate internet BS about Ferrari maintenance costs, reliability, build quality, etc.

I've been a PCA member for over 30 years and a FCA member for over 20. I've owned 6 Porsches and 3 Ferraris. I've never had to wait weeks for any part on my Ferraris. My 360 sits right beside my 993S in my garage and Poor craftsmanship?.....I invite anyone to come and compare the fit, finish and build quality of the two. The Ferrari is absolutely as good as the 993 in all those areas. My 360 has been as trouble-free and reliable for nearly 50,000miles as my 993 has been for nearly 43,000 miles. Can you get an abused or neglected Ferrari that will cost you a forutne to make right? Of course, but that can happen with a Porsche too.

I spend about $1800 for a timing belt (and tensioners, seals, etc) service every five years. That's parts and labor. F1 transmissions do go through clutches more frequently than a 993. My 360 is on its 2nd clutch, installed at about 36,000 miles. Clutch replacement can run anywhere from around $3500 to around $5000 for parts/labor, depending on where the work is done. Small price for true Formula One technology. Other than routine maintenance and fluid changes, the 360 has been absolutely as trouble-free as my 993. I typically use independent service on the Ferrari, just like I do with the 993.

Someone mentioned that a service on a 360 would pay for a 993 engine rebuild. Nonsense. Again another example of a completely inaccurate statement that get perpetuated on internet forums.

Parts prices?? Certain Ferrari parts can indeed be expensive, but it seems like 993 parts are getting expensive now too. Fortunately the 993 doesn't often need parts (nor does my 360). I recently had to replace one of the 4-way switches on my passenger seat on the 993. That simple little switch was nearly $150 and labor about the same. On the contrary, I did have to replace a door latch cable in the Ferrari drivers side door..... $48 for the cable and an hour of labor. Maybe that's comparing apples and oranges, but generally speaking I don't see Ferrari parts being that much more expensive than Porsche parts these days.

I know this originally started as a discussion about a 360 vs. and R8. I can't really comment on an R8 as I've never owned/driven one. I'm sure an R8 is an amazing car. But these discussions always seem to digress into Ferrari vs. Porsche debates. I doubt any input from actual owners, especially from someone who actually owns both, will change any minds.

As a died-in-the-wool sports car guy, I love both my 360 and 993. They're both wonderful cars but very different. I can't imagine getting rid of my 993 but I could see replacing the 360 with a 599

Cheers.

Quadcammer

David, tell me this.

Why can't ferrari paint their plastic parts with a coating that does not turn to sticky goo. It seems inevitable on a lot of these cars, even those that don't sit out in the sun.

Also, why does the dash leather on ferraris shrink so badly? Its not like most owners are leaving them out in the sun all day. From the 575 to the 612 to the 360, it seems like the dash leather just loves to shrink. Lets not even mention the warping passenger side airbag cover.

Ferrari has stepped their game up for sure, but I still think they have more variation in terms of QC and build quality. From what I've seen (and I have not owned a 360, but spent a fair bit of time in them), the 993 is still a step ahead. 355 and older...yikes.

Stuff like the headers cracking though is pretty inexcusable when it occurs over three generations spanning what, 15 years...

David993S

Hi Quad. You have some valid points as it relates to a minority of these vehicles. One could argue it shouldn't happen at all, and I agree. However, if we wanted to we could certainly compile a laundry list of late model Porsche, isssues......... if we wanted to go there. We could do the same with Aston Martin, Lambo, or other small volume exotic makes.

Here's what I think happened with those items: First, it's not inevitable and it's not a problem on the majority of cars. Second, unfortunately it does take Ferrari longer to correct production problems, probably because they make a much smaller volume of cars and it simply takes longer for problems to be identified. Just a fact of life and that doesn't excuse it. However, if my 360 had the sticky switchgear issue, I would say "well, crap. I'll have to fix that" and it wouldn't diminish the ownership experience. Just like when one of 4-way seat switches on the 993 failed, or the sun roof track broke. I said "well crap" and I simply fixed them. It doesn't sour me on 993 quality or reliability.

The sticky switches didn't have anything to do with sun exposure. I don't know exactly what the issue was with the plastic switches and some other plastic parts turning sticky but it seems to have started around '98 and continued through early '01 or so. It was clearly something in the chemical composition of those painted/coated parts, but it wasn't a consistent problem, which is odd in itself. My '99 has never had that problem but I know of some owners who did have it. I agree that's pretty unaceptable but if you happen to get one that has some sticky switches, there are a couple of very easy home fixes to remove the sticky. It's an annoyance that is easily corrected.

I really think the leather shrinkage on the dash is from exposure to sun. It could happen to most any car with a hand made, hand stiched leather dash. My '99 has been mostly in the garage but it has spent a fair number of hours sitting outside in the sun too. It has never had either of those problems and most I've seen just don't have that problem. I do regularly treat my dash with 303 - maybe that's the difference. While one can argue it shouldn't happen at all (and I'm not going to disagree) it was an issue with a minority of cars. I think it's like the 993 SAI problem.....it happens to some cars but not all. Why should it happen at all on an expensive sports car like a 993?

The header issues is the same thing and didn't span 15 years of production. I won't argue that one either. Headers shouldn't crack but it was the exception rather than the rule. But things can happen to any car - my '87 Carrera had a ring/pinion failure at only 30,xxx miles and Porsche determined it was because of bad metallurgy - so there must have been an entire run of R&P's that had this problem. You also don't see me on here complaining about the issues I've had with my 993. Likewise I don't go on FChat or FerrariLife and complain about Porsche problems. I don't want to be argumentative, but I do try to correct innacurate information when it's posted here since I have first hand experience. I suppose if I saw people bashing Porsche on one of the other forums I'd come to the defense of Porsche. Somehow many Porsche owners seem to get all worked up over Ferraris.........they do inspire passion.

As most of you know, any small volume hand made car is different than a mass produced car. Again, based on the Ferraris I've owned, the hundreds I've been around over the years, and the dozens of owners I personally know, we'll just have to disagree on the build quality comparison. Have there been some irritating problems with some models? Yes but it doesn't change my experience as an owner or with my comparison with other marques. Are Ferraris more expensive to maintain? Yes, but not like the exagerated nonsense perpetuated on the internet. Are modern Ferraris less reliable or more problematic when compared to other high end marques? Definitely not. Certainly with the Enzo-era cars there were inconsistant build/quality issues. However beginning with the Montezemolo-era cars things improved significantly.

As I've said before, they are both great cars just very different, with totally different experiences. I love both my 360 and my 993 (I wouldn't say I love my Alfa, but it's such a pretty little car). Again, any Rennlister who is in the Cleveland area (I'm in Hudson) or is passing through is welcome to get in touch, stop by and I will let you compare my 360 and 993 side by side and you can form your own opinion. I may even let you drive it - then you'll never again be satisfied with the performance of your 993.

Cheers.

Quadcammer

David,
good points again. I'd like to see some numerical info on some of these issues. I know the header issue started on the 355 in 95 and at least a handful of 430s have experienced similar issues.

I'm also not sure how prevalent the sticky stuff is, but given that companies like stickynomore now exist, it seems like its more than an isolated issue.

Ferrari is not a mass market producer (although they are certainly heading more in that direction, with both good and bad results), but yet some of the parts seem to be cheap crap at a high price cause of the yellow box with the horsey. Porsche does similar stuff. The sai is embarassing. So are valve guides that need replacement so early. I'm the last person to say porsche is infallible. In fact, they screw up constantly.

CamsPorsche

This is a timely thread...

My mate who owns a 2000 F1 was laughing at me last week as I've had more problems with my 993 than he has with his Ferrari...