Flying Finn

First of all, I have huge respect for Colin and guys like that.

Him and some others, such as Steve, do things right without cutting corners which of course won't be cheap.

I'm an designer & engineering type so when people create stuff themself and push the envelope, I really am into that since I do things like that myself (although in cruise ships, not in cars) but when it comes to me, I can't think of dropping $50K into rebuilding an engine if I end up with 450 hp (and don't get me wrong, that's a LOT of juice!) because because that engine is in a $30K car.

I'd rather buy a TT engine and be done with it or if I wanted 450+ hp, get the TT engine and put bigger turbos and inter cooler.

Just my 5 cents.

doberdog

Flying Finn,
I love the Avatar. One fast and crazy Canadian...

Cactus

Agree with the price vs. value of the car etc. but the Turbo just isn't as fun IMO. It is too much power coming on too strong to suit my driving style. If I lived in the desert where all roads were straight then it would be perfect. I like to work for it just like my motorcycles......lower displacement wound tight

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Well sir,........powerful Turbo & N/A engines possess totally different personalities and its not easy to compare such things.

I'll guarantee that the engine that I posted the pic of is VERY entertaining to drive and is totally usable from idle to 7K RPM. That makes it fun at any speed; something that cannot always be said for turbo motors,...

race911

But you have to admit probably even the worst turbo engine of today is light years away from almost all of the crap we dealt with in trying to make "big power 930s".

The advance I saw for the future (and no way, no how I was able to play/provide in that league with my meager shop}, was Bob Holcombe working with Zytec ECUs on forced induction engines about one year off of their state-of-the-art use in F1 circa 1985-6. I knew that was the future, but I also knew I wasn't an engineer, nor someone who was going to make Porsches/autos/racing my life's work.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Thankfully, yessss,...

Engine Management, along with much-improved turbocharger technology, has transformed these things. Still, an ITB and/or slide-valve equipped N/A engine has far more "snap" and is really exhilarating to drive.

Apples and Oranges,...

sander97C2

Steve, coming previously from a turbo 2 liter, I'm previlaged to drive imo the best all motor engine and its staying that way.

Pm headed your way about the beautiful engine you've pictured here. I just read the entire build about the 964 on you're website. Great work and car.

Bump, this thread rules.

Flying Finn

I absolutely agree with you guys.

Although while in some way it would be fun to have a brutal turbo as those old 911 RSR with big turbos were but my style of driving is, shall I say "Finnish" (=some times a bit sideways), so N/A engine is certainly what I'd prefer so what for example Colin & you Steve can "cook up" would be in top of my priorities list as long as I had the $$$ to do it. That ($$$), and that only is why I say that I'd rather go with turbo.

Besides visual beauty, I'm a sucker for aural beauty so hearing flat six screaming above 7K rpm is always fantastic!

AlessandroSicari

Colin, you mentioned $16k kit for 300-320bhp. I think that's what I've been emailing you/your team about. Can you provide some more detail?

I'm based in Australia though so need a local who can do the work. Anyone in Aus have i should be talking to?

Either that or I can put Colin onto my guy (who builds race cars, Porsche cup, moslers, gt40's etc) who is very very good but hasn't yet done a 993 upgrade like we are talking about here.

Appreciate there are Later options available (996, 997 gt3 etc) but I can't go past that hard-to-describe '993ness'

I'm happy to throw AU$20k at my 95 993 to gain 300bhp+ at the wheels...

Juha G

You don’t need much to reach 300 crank hp. The additional 40-50hp will cost much more and from there the curve (cost vs. hp) goes up very aggressively.

With a 4-5k Eur investment you can do a Motec conversion which will give you 300-310 crank hp and 380-390Nm.

My 1996 varioram 3.6 with 200-cell metallic cats:

Stock ECU: 279hp/339Nm
Motec: 310hp/385Nm

Same dyno, identical conditions.

And the best part is that there is an additional 50Nm troughout the entire power band which you can definitely feel.




Then if you decide to invest 15k, why not go with a supercharger like I did? +150hp and 200Nm, instant power from almost idle…?

NineMeister

Sorry, will be on the case shortly....

SeattleAllroad

Juha G's post is interesting. So, I get the 200 cell cats but exactly what is the Motec ECU doing that the stock ECU is not? I understand a stock ECU from Porsche has to take into consideration a broad range of operating parameters and attendant countermeasures to maintain a safe operating environment for the engine. But, a roughly 30hp difference between Motec and stock? Btw, I'm not caling into question Juha's results nor am I calling BS...I'm just curious what the differences are between Motec and stock.

One of the most interesting threads in a long time

Cactus

Steve....what are the specs/details on this motor you show?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Its a 335 BHP, 280 lbs-ft 3.6 with our own resonance-plenum, ITB intake system, custom (mild) cams, with gently massaged stock heads and OEM pistons. The header/muffler system is our own design as well and uses Motec M84 Engine Management to give complete control and additional resolution to the fueling and timing maps.

Its benign enough that I'm now planning to build one for my own street car.

ofd

This motor would be real nice in a 993 with motons and a cup box...........
Now to find some $$$$ or would it be $$$$$
Hate to ask, what would the first of the 5 $ signs be, a 1$$$$, a 2$$$$ or a 3$$$$
Guess I should read the 964 build