100% plug'n'play aftermarket ECU for our cars for under $1000
01-28-2012, 04:24 PM
#76
Race Director
Directly underneath it...
I don't agree with you and here's why; I have 200-cell sport cats on my car, otherwise the engine is stock. So a very minor mod that here many have done to their 993s.
With the original ECU mapping the engine runs lean at WOT (based on white tail pipes after track sessions and a spikey torque curve).
The car made 279hp and 339Nm on an inertia dyno. With Motec we were able to get the A/F ratios corrected and with the new mapping on the same dyno the car made 309hp and 390Nm...
i.e. My engine is far from heavily modified, yet there was a HUGE improvement from re-mapping AND it was running lean with the original mapping. So it is definately not just for heavily modified engines.
I also believe that each engine and setup is unique and the only way to really get the best results is to customize the mapping.
The performance chips you can buy are allways a compromise. (+ you can't even chip or re-flash the 96 ECUs)
I don't agree with you and here's why; I have 200-cell sport cats on my car, otherwise the engine is stock. So a very minor mod that here many have done to their 993s.
With the original ECU mapping the engine runs lean at WOT (based on white tail pipes after track sessions and a spikey torque curve).
The car made 279hp and 339Nm on an inertia dyno. With Motec we were able to get the A/F ratios corrected and with the new mapping on the same dyno the car made 309hp and 390Nm...
i.e. My engine is far from heavily modified, yet there was a HUGE improvement from re-mapping AND it was running lean with the original mapping. So it is definately not just for heavily modified engines.
I also believe that each engine and setup is unique and the only way to really get the best results is to customize the mapping.
The performance chips you can buy are allways a compromise. (+ you can't even chip or re-flash the 96 ECUs)
The important thing is that porsche tuned the car to be safe under all conditions, and thats not necessarily the case with some tuned vehicles. I certainly wouldn't want to have to fiddle with my computer if I took a trip from say see level california to denver.
01-28-2012, 04:37 PM
#77
"The car made 279hp and 339Nm on an inertia dyno. With Motec we were able to get the A/F ratios corrected and with the new mapping on the same dyno the car made 309hp and 390Nm..."
Extremely rare to find a 993 with AFRs that far off (maybe at most 5%)
that will result in that kind of HP change. Most likely the engine had a
problem. As has been said before, tweaking of the AFRs has very MINOR
effects, i.e. for a non-problematic engine, as compared to 'pushing' the
timing maps.
Extremely rare to find a 993 with AFRs that far off (maybe at most 5%)
that will result in that kind of HP change. Most likely the engine had a
problem. As has been said before, tweaking of the AFRs has very MINOR
effects, i.e. for a non-problematic engine, as compared to 'pushing' the
timing maps.
01-28-2012, 04:39 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
With your last sentence i think you are referrinng to alpha-N based mapping. (fuel and ignition based solely on throttle flap angle) this is of course not a problem when a map or maf sensor is used.
01-28-2012, 04:47 PM
#79
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Extremely rare to find a 993 with AFRs that far off (maybe at most 5%)
that will result in that kind of HP change. Most likely the engine had a
problem. As has been said before, tweaking of the AFRs has very MINOR
effects, i.e. for a non-problematic engine, as compared to 'pushing' the
timing maps.
01-28-2012, 04:59 PM
#80
"Porsche tuned our cars to be safe in all conditions and all kinds of fuel quality. Plus they had to meet strict emissions etc. Etc."
Right! That's why the AFRs are tweaked for max performance and emissions at around 14:1
which results in very little to no torque loss versus an AFR 12-13. The same goes for the timing
with knock control which allowed for max timing under all driving conditions/octanes and a much
higher CR than on non-knock control earlier Porsches.
Again the Bottom Line: Little to no performance gains result from tweaking later more robust
OEM engine management systems over what the factory OEMs programmed!
Right! That's why the AFRs are tweaked for max performance and emissions at around 14:1
which results in very little to no torque loss versus an AFR 12-13. The same goes for the timing
with knock control which allowed for max timing under all driving conditions/octanes and a much
higher CR than on non-knock control earlier Porsches.
Again the Bottom Line: Little to no performance gains result from tweaking later more robust
OEM engine management systems over what the factory OEMs programmed!
01-28-2012, 05:13 PM
#81
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Loren, please explain what happened here then:
With stock mapping http://m3supercar.1g.fi/kuvat/993/Motec/993-dyno.JPG
With motec http://m3supercar.1g.fi/kuvat/993/Mo...with+Motec.jpg
Same car, same dyno, same operator. Only difference is the engine management.
With stock mapping http://m3supercar.1g.fi/kuvat/993/Motec/993-dyno.JPG
With motec http://m3supercar.1g.fi/kuvat/993/Mo...with+Motec.jpg
Same car, same dyno, same operator. Only difference is the engine management.
02-05-2012, 05:09 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ok, today we were able to fire her up with the proto-ECU and make her idle.
Everything worked fine. We also tested that the varioram and the resonance flap controls were ok.
The varioram pin is grounded when over 5160rpm and 50% throttle open. The resonance flap pin is grounded at 5960rpm and 50% TP. So all is good.
Next week we will put a wide band lambda in the exhaust to get the fuel corrected. (maps are already ok for my car but factors have to be adjusted).
After that the proto is pretty much ready for testing. But is -15 degrees celsius here and my car is in pieces so no chance to go out and drive... + I want to start taking the stock intake apart for the SC install.
So who wants to step up? I can send the proto to US (no 88-pin cars here in Europe). No $$ involved, no strings attached. You just have to promise to take the time and dial it in AND report back here on rennlist.
Here's a video from today:
Everything worked fine. We also tested that the varioram and the resonance flap controls were ok.
The varioram pin is grounded when over 5160rpm and 50% throttle open. The resonance flap pin is grounded at 5960rpm and 50% TP. So all is good.
Next week we will put a wide band lambda in the exhaust to get the fuel corrected. (maps are already ok for my car but factors have to be adjusted).
After that the proto is pretty much ready for testing. But is -15 degrees celsius here and my car is in pieces so no chance to go out and drive... + I want to start taking the stock intake apart for the SC install.
So who wants to step up? I can send the proto to US (no 88-pin cars here in Europe). No $$ involved, no strings attached. You just have to promise to take the time and dial it in AND report back here on rennlist.
Here's a video from today:
02-05-2012, 05:15 PM
#84
Nordschleife Master
Ok, today we were able to fire her up with the proto-ECU and make her idle.
Everything worked fine. We also tested that the varioram and the resonance flap controls were ok.
The varioram pin is grounded when over 5160rpm and 50% throttle open. The resonance flap pin is grounded at 5960rpm and 50% TP. So all is good.
Next week we will put a wide band lambda in the exhaust to get the fuel corrected. (maps are already ok for my car but factors have to be adjusted).
After that the proto is pretty much ready for testing. But is -15 degrees celsius here and my car is in pieces so no chance to go out and drive... + I want to start taking the stock intake apart for the SC install.
So who wants to step up? I can send the proto to US (no 88-pin cars here in Europe). No $$ involved, no strings attached. You just have to promise to take the time and dial it in AND report back here on rennlist.
Here's a video from today:
Everything worked fine. We also tested that the varioram and the resonance flap controls were ok.
The varioram pin is grounded when over 5160rpm and 50% throttle open. The resonance flap pin is grounded at 5960rpm and 50% TP. So all is good.
Next week we will put a wide band lambda in the exhaust to get the fuel corrected. (maps are already ok for my car but factors have to be adjusted).
After that the proto is pretty much ready for testing. But is -15 degrees celsius here and my car is in pieces so no chance to go out and drive... + I want to start taking the stock intake apart for the SC install.
So who wants to step up? I can send the proto to US (no 88-pin cars here in Europe). No $$ involved, no strings attached. You just have to promise to take the time and dial it in AND report back here on rennlist.
Here's a video from today:
02-05-2012, 05:26 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
If you spend the time and learn how to use the software first, then it will be very easy to tune the engine on a dyno. The dyno operator will just ask for more/less fuel or to advance/retard the ignition etc. and you will do it.
Much cheaper and easier than to pay for the dyno operator to learn how to use the software.
You can do 90% of the mapping your self with a helping friend. Just drive around with a laptop and adjust on the fly.
You will need a wide band lambda (~300USD) and lots of patience.
There will be a million questions and my friend will be happy to answer but patience is required as we in a completely different time zone...
Send me your contact info to my pm.
02-05-2012, 06:00 PM
#87
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The processor is MS3 so we use TunerStudio: http://www.tunerstudio.com/index.php...id=5&Itemid=13
He will also make a 55-pin version which we are hoping to try on another Finnish 993 when the snow melts...
He will also make a 55-pin version which we are hoping to try on another Finnish 993 when the snow melts...
02-06-2012, 03:53 AM
#89
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I thought I'd share this info as well;
Mike asked me if this was just a modified Megasquirt. Here's my reply:
Hi Mike,
Yes and no; it only uses the MS3 processor. Everything else is his own engineering.
Juuso (my friend) first started with the original megasquirt some years ago. He bought a kit, built it and used in on a turbo’ed engine.
He was not happy at all with it. The components were unreliable, the scaling of the mapping was rough and it was missing some very vital functions.
Later on he reverse engineered a BMW M52 ECU and installed just a MS2 processor in the ECU, using all original components on the BMW ECU. That worked well since it had reliable original components and the MS2 processor was a light year ahead of the original . Yet it was not an ideal way to do it as for every ECU he’d had to dismantle an original BMW ECU.
It was then that he had enough experience and information about the ECU’s that he could design one himself. (keep in mind he does this for living, not ECU’s but electrical engineering).
The entire thing is a hobby for him. He is not looking to make money out of it.
We already have replicated the fuel and ignition maps from my Motec file. (my engine was tuned on M600). So we just have to dial in the correction factors using a wide band lambda.
i.e. with the ECU I am sending you should be able to just plug it in and fire her up.
It is very good that you have experience with MS, it will help you a lot. However, please try to have a neutral approach to this. I know you must have some negative memories of the original MS… I know I do… =)
Mike asked me if this was just a modified Megasquirt. Here's my reply:
Hi Mike,
Yes and no; it only uses the MS3 processor. Everything else is his own engineering.
Juuso (my friend) first started with the original megasquirt some years ago. He bought a kit, built it and used in on a turbo’ed engine.
He was not happy at all with it. The components were unreliable, the scaling of the mapping was rough and it was missing some very vital functions.
Later on he reverse engineered a BMW M52 ECU and installed just a MS2 processor in the ECU, using all original components on the BMW ECU. That worked well since it had reliable original components and the MS2 processor was a light year ahead of the original . Yet it was not an ideal way to do it as for every ECU he’d had to dismantle an original BMW ECU.
It was then that he had enough experience and information about the ECU’s that he could design one himself. (keep in mind he does this for living, not ECU’s but electrical engineering).
The entire thing is a hobby for him. He is not looking to make money out of it.
We already have replicated the fuel and ignition maps from my Motec file. (my engine was tuned on M600). So we just have to dial in the correction factors using a wide band lambda.
i.e. with the ECU I am sending you should be able to just plug it in and fire her up.
It is very good that you have experience with MS, it will help you a lot. However, please try to have a neutral approach to this. I know you must have some negative memories of the original MS… I know I do… =)
