NP993

You said you had the injectors rebuilt....are you sure you got the right ones back, and they were rebuilt correctly?

TravisB

Pretty confident. Also, if the injectors weren't working properly, that wouldn't explain why it won't even attempt to fire on starter fluid.

I'm almost wondering if the cylinders are just fouled up from 3 days of trying to start; but then again not a single thing has changed since my first attempt at starting (just testing and checking various things over and over), so it should have started before all this if it were going to. I guess the question is..what haven't I checked. All I can think of is the crank sensor, but if that were bad I wouldn't get any spark would I?

alenz

I have the correct connector for that kit. If rsr91128 sends the kit I'll send the connecter you need. Just PM w/ address and I'll over night it.

I'm pretty sure it will still spark just not at the correct time. This happend to my '99 LandRover DII and it would sometimes fire and sometimes just crank over and over.

Andrew

Mike J

Good tests! Damn results!

So, got fuel, vacuum and spark. Its should run, but does not even burp a bit.

If we assume fuel is not a culprit (especially if you did use starter fluid and it did not burp), then it's vacuum or spark.

If you feel suction at the intake, then they are no leaks big enough to stop the engine from at least burping a bit. It may run rough, but at least it would burp and possibly start.

So that leaves spark. You can visibly see the sparks on the sparkplugs, so its not a matter IF we can get a spark, but confirming that the spark is at the RIGHT time.

You know the flywheel pulley has 3 marks 120 degrees apart, right? Usually the TDC for piston # 1 (left hand closest to the rear of the car) is the one marked in RED. Just confirming that is the one you used to check. When you put the pulley back on, the dowel pin was in place to place the pulley, right? You can use three different colored markers to mark TDC with red, color the maker 120 degrees clockwise with green (say) and 120 degrees after than in blue (say).

If you use a timing light, you should be able to clamp the pickup on #1, and see it flash when the red TDC mark passes (point the gun at the pulley when cranking). Then move to #6, it should also show a mark on the pulley when flashing, but this one should be the blue one. Next test #2, it should be the green mark. Next #4, red, #3 - blue and #5 - green. I am trying to verify that the overall timing of the ignition circuit appears to be correct, not that we just get spark. You can at least get an idea with a timing light. Clamp the light at the spark plugs, not the distributor. That would also confirm the wiring, the crank sensor, and the general timing. It will NOT confirm that the distributor is timed at the correct TDC, but since you did not remove the distributor, nor change the cam timing, it should be correct.

Not sure if I am being clear here, you showed us a picture of the caps and labeled piston numbers, but I am assuming you checked the routing of the plug wires and verified that indeed #6 on the distributor cap is firing sparkplug #6 (right hand side, piston to the front of the car). The test above would check that.

It might be off-ball, I wonder if your DME is screwed or blown? That is hard to test, the only real way to check that is to swap a working one in.

I am getting stumped as well, you have tried a lot of combinations.

Cheers,

Mike

NP993

What happens to the MAF after it's been repeatedly coated with starter fluid? Does it still work?

GC96

I'm wondering if positioning of the flywheel might be the problem as well. If the two missing teeth in the flywheel are not in the correct position relative to TDC maybe that could throw off the timing. I assumed that the bolt pattern on the flywheel would be made to avoid such a potential mistake but I could be wrong. In my limited experience changing flywheels on other makes, there is usually one mounting hole that is offset slightly relative to the overall bolt circle to essentially key the flywheel to only fit correctly in one orientation. Check your old flywheel to see if that's the case. If not, then maybe the flywheel is mounted incorrectly.

GC

IXLR8

I already asked that in my call to Travis yesterday evening.

The flywheel is pinned so that there is no possibility of offsetting it.

I also confirmed that the distributor had not been removed during his maintenance.

So as far as timing is concerned, those two aspects are checked off.

Mike J

I agree Alex, so I was asking on the routing of the plug wires to close that off as well - its easy to get them mixed up. Hence the timing light idea. That would confirm flywheel sensor, distributor, coils and leads.

Given the injectors are spraying, are we back to a major vacuum leak? I lot of his work was the removal of the intake manifold and its replacement. Valve covers etc. should have nothing to do with it, and he did not touch the ignition circuit except for the plug wires.

Fault codes would be good to try. If I had some spare time, I would drive down with my PST-2 and check it out, but its really busy up here. Lets see how it pans out by the weekend.

Cheers,

Mike

IXLR8

I asked Travis if he had a timing light for verification, but he sold that a few months back.

His labels on the distributor caps are all OK.

I wonder if he maybe got mixed up with cylinder number configuration, although I include that schematic with my ignition wires.

MarkD

When running the wires one by one it is very possible to make a mistake.

One of the reason the OE Beru sets, with resistors and already in the routing looms, are nice.
Of course, you pay the price.

Why isn't everything in life free?
Dang!

Travis, I thought you had already checked the routing, cap to plug?
I wonder, are you getting spark at the plug? Sorry if I missed that answer prior, still catching up with this

TravisB

I did not know there were 3 marks..so that would be something to check, but I found I had taken a picture of the left hand side of the engine before everything came off. I can't say anything about 4-6, but 1-3 are wired like they were before. Since the distributor never came out, rotors only go in one way, etc etc. I should have at least half of a running engine.



Should be safe for it, but even if it isn't, I believe it will run without a MAF all together..



This scares me. I don't recall noticing/seeing any skipped teeth on the new flywheel, but I just went and saw there were on the old flywheel. I've been going through the time lapse stills, which are high enough resolution that I can see the blocks, and I am not seeing any skipped teeth during the installation pics, nor the stills I took with a normal camera. I had a problem with the crank turning while I was torquing the bolts, so while the camera was fixed, the flywheel had rotated a little bit at least.

I guess I will have to figure out how to check this...my gut says this is my problem, since I'd have to remove everything again and drain $100 worth of oil, etc etc.



I did the key-on, WOT for 5 second code check, came back with nothing. But I think that won't pick up any codes until the engine is actually running. If the PST-2 will tell me things without having the engine running, I'd be tempted to come up and get it if you could meet me at the border (I am off sick today anyway, but the rental has to stay in the country). On the other hand I don't know what PST-2 is or if I am smart enough to operate it.



Well, all the timing stuff I've done so far, and then my before-after picture comparison this morning, and I'm about 110% confident in the leads being routed properly now..

IXLR8

Even if they are pre-assembled in a loom from Beru, if the installer thinks cylinder #1 is at the front right, they can have it wrong. That is what I was referring to.

I assembled mine out of the car, snapped all cable hold-downs together and installed them that way...not using the one-by-one method.

Considering the whole top of the engine (all components were removed), I'm surprised it started first shot...its easy to forget to connect something

techman1

Travis, you have a PM

GC96

You might want to see if you can get a view of your flywheel if you remove either the snorkel tube that connects to the airbox or the crank position sensor. If you can get a good view of the flywheel then you might want to turn the engine over by hand to see if you can spot a segment with two teeth missing. Let me know if you need a hand with this. If you have access to an oscilloscope then the easier way is to watch the wave form for the crank position sensor output while you crank the engine.

MDamen

Did you disconnect the power wires to the coils? Maybe they got reversed on re-assembly. I don' think that would throw the timing off that much that it would not start.

I have a timing light. I could bring it by tonight. Let me know.