Bill Verburg

while I like 964s in general, 993 fixed or upgraded many of the systems. It's unfortunate that the introduction of OBD2 in US '96's introduced a bunch of teething problem negatives

77'3.6vram

Your reputation on RL would lead someone to believe that you can read.Or are you one of those kids that had there parents pay for someone to take your SAT's for them.Nowhere in my post did I say I dislike the 964 two wheeled drive modles.They are just fine.I do have an issue with the four wheel drive 964's.I owned a 964 c4 coupe when I attended collage.Had it for five years.It was not until I sold it to buy my first real Porsche that I realized just how un-Porschelike they drive.What I said regarding a true Porsche experience has to do with comparing 964's and 993's.From currently owning Porsches from the 60's,70's and 90's I truly believe I have a better grasp on which 911 is a better and more engaging drive.That said my 77' with a 98' VRAM engine is what driving a real Air cooled Porsche is all about.The historical facts regarding the 964 and how actual Porsche engineers felt about it are easy to find.Try Excellence was Expected.The 964 was considered ugly and noisy buy the men who designed it and built it.It was a financial disaster for Porsche which almost caused the company to go bankrupt.Simple facts whether you like them or not.

RonCT

I've owned a 92 C2 and now own a 97 C2S. Both great cars with many similarities. I think it would be harder to find a great low mile 964 today than a 993. A lot depends on your budget as others have suggested. I don't sense that either will do better than the other down the road in terms of resale. I think the relative value between say a $30,000 964 and a $38,000 993 will remain somewhat constant. There's a very nice and basic 96 C2 in Arena on black with about 29k miles in AZ that I believe is still available and I believe the asking was in the high 30s. Both are getting harder to find.

For me the pluses on the 993 are Pollen Filter (try being an allergy sufferer in New England), updated suspension, more power, 6 speed, sexy looks, last of the air-cooled aura.

KaiB

when I attended collage.

That's cute....

77'3.6vram

I'm 42 now.I drove a new stone gray/black 964 c4 around UM(Miami) between 89-93.I traded that car in at the Porsche Collection on Bird RD in late 94 for a new Black/Black 95' 993.Anything else seem cute to you.Post your email and I will send pics of my garage.AssClown!

ja78911sc

This thread is spinning out of control

luial

@77'3.6vram I'm sure you didn't see that you misspelled college as collage

KaiB

...Or that his grammar is terrible...but that's OK. He went to collage.

Makmov

I think you are being overly critical of the 964.

Had it not been for the 964 there would not have been a 993.

The AWD in the 964 is probably the best production system they ever fitted to a "911". Notwithstand the most you will ever get to the front wheels of a 993 is 58%.

A 964 stock is also geared better, lighter, a generally feels more connected to the 911 roots than a 993.

Don't get me wrong there are some good thing about the 993; however, you pay for them. Expect to pay at least 10k more for a apples to apples 993 over a 964. To be honest, it's dollar for performance gains it's probably not worth it.

On the plus side it is a lot easy to find a widebody 993 and not have to pay a preimum for it.

Jeff96-993

It's all personal preference, no need for anyone to go ballistic over it. I bought my first and only Porsche in 1991, an awesome '86 Carrera because I fell in love with the bodystyle in 1974 and knew I needed one. In 1974 I was 12 years old. At age 30ish, I found the one I wanted...

And that was the only one I would ever buy... except they came out with the 993 bodystyle. It spoke to me. In 1998 I purchased a 1996 Carrera. I owned the "only" and the '96 for quite a while. I still have the '96, and regret selling the '86.

The 964's were a great car... but they didn't speak to me. Why?

Who cares? That's the point. Find and buy the one you want. That's the most important point.

And as I've aged, I'm finding the earlier ones to be even more appeailing. I'd love a 356. I'd love a '73.

Actually, if someone wants to donate, I'd take them all.

Jon93

"considered ugly and noisy buy the men"

I think you mean "considered ugly and noisy BY the men", don't you?

996scott

considering all the debate over the C4, I should make it clear that I don't want a C4. I won't drive it in the winter and it will only be one more thing to fix down the road. I love the simplicity of a C2 coupe manual trans. There is a nice 96 C2 for sale on PCA.org. I have emailed the owner and it sounds like it is well taken care of. It has 88K miles on it and is asking $35K for it. When I get a little more info on it I will probably post again asking what you think of the car and the price. Thanks again.

race911

Wow. Too funny to hear the rant on the 964 C4. Minor, and I mean minor prep of my '92 C4 kept me on pace with all but the (then) D class RSA club racers ~10 years ago, for 3 full years of competition. Yes, merely time trial competition as I wasn't interested in hacking that car into a club racer. Point is, it wasn't DE lapping.

End result was a car felt like a pretty well set up 944 Turbo, at least as we prepped them in the mid-late '80s.

Happy to engage in conversation with anyone else who has broad based hand on experience competing with multiple platforms in the series, or has worked professionally on them.

Oh, and one final thing. What's the BS about 7K valve adjustments? I've had cars in with up to 30K between adjustments and you usually only find 2 or 3 even moderately out of tolerance.

77'3.6vram

Just to get it out I have Dyslexia.If you have a problem with my grammar or spelling thats to bad.I have owned dozens of sports cars.I like cars of all kinds.I have chosen to own only Porsches and Mercedes over the past ten years. I have a plethora of practical knowledge reguarding daily driven Porsches.My 964 C4 experience was a nightmare.It is not my opinion that the 964 had major noise issues related to the suspension but it's designers.Porsche knew that "the 964's direct abutting of it's coil springs against the body had it's audible consequences".(page 1137 of Excellence was Expected or EWE)The engineers origanily wanted to use "air springs" to deal with the issue but "ultimately the air springs weren't used".The removal of the transverse torsion bar was a mistake(Peter Falf) and "would prove to be a weak point of the 964's design".(page 1132 of EWE)Porsche insiders/employees spoke freely"what bothers us about the four-wheel-drive concept is particularly it's weight increase.With the 959 we could simply compensate with power".(page 1132 of EWE).Lastly please read the "Press Assessment" that starts on page 1136 of EWE.Quotes like "it's rear suspension wooly-knocks like crazy over bumps,transmitting the sound straight into the cabin"(pg.1137)are all over the place.Again It is not just my opinion.Read the history and facts.

Makmov

Besides the spelling and horrible Grammer... you do come across as someone who hasn't the first clue what they are even talking about.