Stealth 993

I don't feel the PSS10's are a good track setup. More of a street setup, that is better at the track then stock suspension.

How much do you want to spend? No one will argue that if you spend $10k on any hi end shock it's going to work great.

IMHO, for the money, JIC Cross is going to be hard to beat, & is a little more on the track side VS PSS10's. But I do LOVE beating people at the track with stock ROW M030 suspension on my C4!

aircooled

Steve, Just so I can get my pea brain to understand, the higher the numerical spring rate = stiffer suspension setup??

Many thanks

Mercedesben

I had the pss9 setup on my 993 8 years ago and street was full soft and I kept it at 5 front and 6 rear for track. I do not need the adjustable setup as I just want to arrive and drive. But if performance was far superior with the pss sys I will get that setup.
The real ? Is how much better is the pss setup? Than hd

KaiB

I don't feel the PSS10's are a good track setup.

Feel, or know? I can tell you that at my home track we're within 1.3 seconds of the PCA H lap record for our cars - on PSS10s. I can almost guarantee that my coach could get there tomorrow with no other changes...but then again, he can drive a car.

At the risk of being redundant I'll mention that the PSS10s have proven themselves to be quite capable dual purpose shocks - at least to me and in my car.

chaoscreature

Have you looked into JIC's? They are a tremendous value since they are adjustable and come with the camber plates and mono-***** included. I have had mine for over a year and drive it 3x/week to work on 700/1100lb springs. Its stiff and lets you know when you hit a pot-hole but everyone has their own comfort level. Jon at JIC will set you up with whatever spring stiffness you want.
Adjustable shocks are a must in my opinion unless you order something that is extremely well proven. I use the adjustments to dial in/out oversteer and to accomodate for track conditions. If you don't have adjustable sways (like me) than you will only have tire size/pressure to play with.

Floodj

I have the PSS10 and here is what I have found about adjustable.
I don't adjust it. However, I am glad I got them and do think the ride is improved over the stock system I had before. The reason I don't adjust the suspense is really ride height, I cannot reach my arm in there and see what I am doing while making the changes, so I just don't make changes. I have tried different setting, found what I like, and right now I just leave it there. I even drove the 'Ring with my current setting.

While I am glad I changed my suspension if I had to do it all again I would change the seats for something which would permit a five-point harness. Right now I think that is the top modification you can make which will increase both your speed and your safety.

--Joe

KaiB

Then a six point harness would make me ever faster and safer...

nile13

Steve, thank you very much!!

I'm surprised at a couple of things. I had HDs with H&Rs on previous cab and HDs with M030 on current cab. I can't say i feel the front end being softer om the current car. Of course it's hard to tell as difference is not huge, but the seat of my pants feel is about the same for both.

I'm somewhat used to tenders as I've had them on both Tein and now JIC coilovers on Miata. But always thought that they use them more for anti-rattle effect than any real compression stiffness. Interesting and good to know that it's not the case. And interesting to see that PSS10 rears are that much stiffer. Wow. The next curious question would be the rate od the PSS10 shock at full stiff compared to HDs in order to accommodate that much spring.

Magdaddy

the H&R's are essentially "custom" valved HD's right...?

The PO of my car installed the H&R SS version-monoballs and adj sway's. It seems to be a very popular combo of the cars that come out of Protosport in NJ.

I would imagine the H&R set up with sways, is a set up designed to compliment each other. I certainly don't know how this set up would compare to a standard HD with M030, regarding price and performance.

I don't(yet) track my car, and the street ride is just fine for me.

Good luck Ben.

Mercedesben

The h&r coilover system uses bilstein shocks I believe. But I am comparing bilstein shocks with either h&r springs or mo30 springs to pss9s. I will look into other options as well but if the $ amount goes up to much then it makes more sense to sell the car and sink some $ into a 997 or 996 Tt which is faster out of the box. But I really like my 993 this being my second one. I even talked my father into giving up his 964 for a 993 about 5 years ago and his is a bone stock perfect example.

il pirata

[QUOTE=aircooled;9070474]Steve, Just so I can get my pea brain to understand, the higher the numerical spring rate = stiffer suspension setup??

It's not the pea brain...it's the altitude...at least that is what I keep telling myself

KaiB

[quote=il pirata;9071214]Think stiffer spring - yes you are correct.

But please do think of suspensions as an integrated system.

nile13

Joe, you are confusing H&R adjustable coilovers with H&R spring here, I think. At least that's the H&R mentioned and discussed above - just springs. You probably have H&R adjustable coilovers. Which are re-valved Bilsteins, supposedly. With some springs not really the same as regular H&R springs.

nile13

To all the pea brain folks (I include myself in this group): Springs are rated in lb/ft for stiffness. Higher number means a stiffer spring. But that might or might not translate to stiffer feel in the car as far as going over bumps, etc is concerned. That depends on a number of factors (as Kai already mentioned above).

A very, very popular setup for really fast E Stock Miatas today is a soft stock spring with insanely stiffly re-valved Bilsteins. That's not ideal, but the Stock class doesn't allow them to change the springs, only shocks. So they make do. The resulting car, and I've co-driven one all of 2010 is stiff as hell and feels extremely odd but is also very fast once you learn this setup.

The bottom line of this is simple. Don't worry about one element. Worry about how all elements will work together. Even before that, ask yourself what you want to achieve. After answering that you'll know that people like Steve W. are worth their weight in gold in helping with "complete suspension setup" as a complex equation with at least 4-5 obvious variables and a dozen non-obvious ones. Do it differently and you'll end up with multiple iterations, loss of $$, loss of hair and other nasty side effects.

chaoscreature

Nile13 has some good comments. Stiff springs with underdampened shocks will result in a car that doesn't handle well as the shocks will not be able to "tame" the spring quickly. When you hit a bump the suspension will go into a diminishing harmonic (like when you jump on the bumper of an old Buick and it just keeps moving, but it will be faster and with less movement on our cars).
Soft springs with overdampened shocks will act sluggish. The damper is basically taking the brunt of the load but once in a "stuffed" or "drooped" position it will be slow to return to its natural resting point because the spring is not strong enough to overcome the shock quickly.
You need a tuned "package" where the shock and spring are in synch with eacother.