ecobb993

In another recent thread we again discussed the makeup of the Mobile 1. Apparently Porsche had approved the 0W-40 but the concern voiced was that the Zinc content of 1100 PPM might not be sufficiently high to protect our non-roller tappet engines. The general agreement was that 1200-1300 PPM was the needed zinc content. Also it was pointed out that too much zinc could actually be detrimental.

So I did a little research and simple math and came up with a potential solution hoping to elicit your expert input.

I contacted Eastwood about the zinc content in their ZDDPlus additive.

They claim the contents of each 4oz bottle runs 650,000 PPM of Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate (ZDDP). If my math is right (highly questionable) we'd only need a half an ounce to increase 10 quarts of the 0W-40's 1100 PPM to 1300 PPM.

Does this make any scientific sense?

JC

Glenn Evans

10 US quarts is 320 floz. 1 floz @650,000 ppm /320 floz is approx 2000ppm! (For an accurate ratio, the densities of the oil and the ZDDP Plus should be factored in.) 2000ppm is the upper limit of ZDDP you should run.

Eastwood recommends adding 1floz per quart so I suspect that the 650,000 ppm is wrong.

Arena993

Not that this adds anything to the discussion, but I work for an international lubricants company and we make numerous blends of oil for the automotive market synthetic and conventional. We get the ZDDP in by the rail tankers weekly. I'm not in the manufacturing side of the business, but I know the lead chemist pretty well. I will ask her if ZDDP can be added at the time of an oil change or does it need to be blended during the manufacturing process. It would be nice to just add ZDDP at an oil change.

Mike

Ed Hughes

Most of te sages I've seen weigh in on this question say NO to ZDDP additives. Get the proper oil to start with.

Arena993

Ed

That would be my thoughts as we in-line blend at specific temps. There has to be a reason for this. I'll talk to her tomorrow just to verify

Mike

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Ed's advice is spot on,....

ZDDP must be balanced with an effective detergent package to prevent ring and piston problems.

Simply adding additional Zn & P without the whole package is looking for some expensive trouble.

Its really best to buy the product that contains what you need.

DanL993

Geez Steve, is there anything you don't know about these cars?? You are amazing.

Now I'm REALLY sorry that lunch/dinner with you never panned out. Maybe next time.

paa502

Steve smart.

Glenn Evans

The detergents used in oil are metal-based. One type is calcium salicylates. Calcium, however, displaces zinc from the zinc phosphate anti-wear layers formed from ZDDP and adversely affects their anti-wear effectiveness. A higher ZDDP content is required for effective anti-wear when the detergent package contains calcium.

The VOAs on the Bob is the Oil Guy forum show some oils have a calcium content nearing 3000 ppm.

Steve, do you have any guidance what the level of calcium should be vs the amount of zinc?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Dan,

No worries,......I'll catch you the next time you're in town.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Glenn,

When I get a chance, I'll dig up the VOA's we did on a whole gaggle of oils and look at some of the packages in the oils we use such as Brad-Penn Racing. Thats a superb product.

Glenn Evans

Thanks, Steve. I really appreciate your advice!

Quadcammer

why not just run the Mobil Vtwin 20w-50? Its got like 1700ppm of zddp, which should be plenty.

Arena993

Steve is right our lead chemist said that all additives in oil work in conjunction with each other and the amounts of those additives are specific to the blend. So her advice is not to add ZDDP or the balance is not right.

Glenn Evans

What oil does she recommend for flat tappet engines?