Falcondrivr

See #13 and #14 above. What his investment is has no bearing on the value. It's either worth what a 89 964 C4 is worth, or the sum of the used parts.
It is not, and never will be, a 993.

Mark in Baltimore

+1989 964

mts

$20-$25k assuming the work was done as well as you indicate. The market for the car would be very, very small though.

Falcondrivr

"small" like 3 people. OK maybe 4.

Ed Hughes

No way is that FrankenPorsche worth more than $20k. I'd go with Ken and say it's worth $15k, and then make up the diff parting it out. Looking like and actually being a 993 turbo are thousands and thousands and thousands of $ apart.

Ed Hughes

No. That logic doesn't work in Porsche world. It works the opposite. The final product is worth less than stock.

Ferdie

I rather have the feeling that he wants to find ways in favour of the owner of the car to justify a higher value. Nothing wrong with that.


I am not familiar with muscelcars at all but from what I understand the conversion from a Lemans to GTO clone would make sense and be appreciated since the latter is a very sought after car. Same would apply to the countless RS conversions in North America on the 964 and 993. An aircooled Turbo, no matter how great it is, does not belong to this group of low-volume cars that have to be converted to obtain one for reasonable money. Most people sacrifice originality in favour to obtain a car that feels like a factory-spec limited-edition model. And, in my opinion, therein lies the rub apart from the fact that the used bodyparts are far from factoryspec and the technical components are to date for a 964. How much the car would be worth has been commented on by much more experienced members but the above considerations would keep me from increasing the value significantly. In favour of it are the, according to your comments, impeccable build quality and selected components.

NineMeister

With all due respect I think we may be looking at this car from the wrong direction.

In my view, you have to assume that the current owner wanted the car built that way for a good reason and that if the car had not been covered in hydraulic oil he would have finished it to his satisfaction. The insurance company's responsibility is to provide him with enough funds to exactly replicate his current position which means they owe him the market value of the donor 964 plus the cost to convert it to the current status at todays prices.

From a salvage title point of view the vehicle should be worth no more than 75% of the sum of the undamaged major parts (engine, box, bodyshell, panels, wheels, etc).

Falcondrivr

Excellent logic Colin. Unfortunately, in the US, insurance value, on a standard policy is based upon actual cash value. This value is supposed to represent what the car would sell for at a wholesale auction. In real numbers, it's actually lower than the value you see if you put a 993 into kbb.com and look at the "trade in" number.
It's a sad fact, but 99% of air cooled Porsche owners here are screwed if they have an accident. Here in Florida, a car is a total loss if the repairs will be more than 80% of the value. By their numbers, I'm totaled if I do more than $12-13k in damage to my car...

matt777

I think there is some consensus on the value. The other question (although not the OP's original question) is what was the car insured for/as? If he was paying premiums based on a stock 964 then I don't see why he would get more. If he has classic car insurance then an appraisal is required to determine if the car is worth the specified value on the policy. That is why it is a good idea to get an appraisal before there is an incident so you will not be stock proving its value afterwards. My insurance company insists that I have an appraisal up front. Currently I am getting an appraisal on my 356 project otherwise I will have no coverage.

aron in toronto

Is the owners insurance covering the loss or is the "at fault" insurers covering the loss.
While I agree that the resale value is not the same as a 993 & likely even less than an original 964, doesn't the at faults insurance carrier have an obligation to repair/restore the vehicle to its pre damaged condition. Or does the owner want to cash out. If this is the case, it may be difficult to come up with a $$ number that everyone agrees on.

evoderby

What a heartbreaking story! I feel very sorry for the guy....

Something that does strike me is the fact that he's seemingly north of 50K in his quest to replicate a car worth what, $ 35-40K in the US?(try to find a nice C4S for under € 45K in Europe BTW!). Going this route is always a risk insurance wise without having full and agreed upon appraisal.

The only way this approach of using a carbon fiber bodykit to me seems a genuine multiplier in value is when building a dedicated track car, we all know Colin Chapman's words "to increase speed, add lightness".This of course comes at a substantial price. In addition the turbo body allows wider track/rubber to be used, whilst the 993 shape reduces the impact on drag as much as possible compared to sticking to the 964 turbo shape. The fresh/tuned 993 engine sticks with this racer theme of maximizing HP/liter for a given restricted (DE)class, as does the aftermarket coil over suspension. There's no denying (not even by routined insurance companies;-))that motorsport preparation is very costly indeed, especially at show car quality standards...

If a mint leather interior was still present in the car one could argue the value of this could be capatalized upon to install a roll cage and buckets seats RS/Cup style.

I know nothing about the way US insurance works but to me the case as presented above seems far more compelling compared to a '89 C4S plastic copy (?). In addition, if given the chance to buy the car back afterwards this again would be the exact route I'd take with this car. I'm surprised that the hydraulic fluid is projected to have such devastating effects on the paintwork and underlying carbon fiber in years to come, however when turning it into a racer chances are these need replacement along the course of a few spirited seasons anyway (?).

Give the car a thorough wash, strip out the interior, fit a cage, RS motormounts, battery switch, braided teflon lines to the existing turbo brakes and DE tires and you have a nice basic track package that someone could evolve and fine tune over time when he or she becomes a better driver over time. If the Motronic is fried there wouldn't be a nicer time to install a 9M motec kit with the insurance money.

After all the dust has settled buy the wife a nice original 993....just my 2C.

Good luck!

pjstevens77

The car wasn't insured as it was still in the guy's shop being built. So he is going after the truck's insurance company. He owns the body shop, so this is where things get a little suspicious. He had been working on this car for a year, said it was a xmas present for his wife. Also lost was another one of his personal cars a 1983 Jeep Cj that had been restored. When I asked if he was going to buy it back he said no. He just wanted it gone. Isn't odd that he had two personal cars damaged here? He wants them gone....doesn't want to rebuild. When I told him the car isn't worth anywhere near the $40k he wants he got very upset. I'm starting to regret even evaluating this car. I think the motor is about the only thing that is salvageable, maybe the suspension and wheels. I called the car at $27k despite the disagreement from some.