Does it make sense to do major upgrades for DEs
10-18-2011, 12:26 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
<snip>
What do you think? Would you just be satisfied where you are, upgrade a little, a lot or move to a different car. If you are an upgrader what do you reccommend?
(I ask this knowing some of you can run with the 'better' cars already. For you, how did you get there and are you tempted to move up?)
What do you think? Would you just be satisfied where you are, upgrade a little, a lot or move to a different car. If you are an upgrader what do you reccommend?
(I ask this knowing some of you can run with the 'better' cars already. For you, how did you get there and are you tempted to move up?)
For you = ?
best upgrade paths to make the car as capable as possible without digging into the engine =;
- lighten the car as much as reasonably possible, a few locals have done so and gotten down to ~ 2400 pounds including a full cage.
- when adding lightweight bodywork, make provisions for optimal wheel / tire widths.
- add your favorite modified exhaust and air cleaner.
- chip and tune.
- have a pro work with you to optimize suspension and driving technique
WARNING, at least one guy that has followed this path and "ruined" a sweet 4S wishes he would have never wasted time and money modding his car and just bought a more capable car in the beginning, (but I was able to score some interesting goodies from him in the process
).Once you make it as capable as you'd like it's very unlikely you'll ever drive it on the street again.
Have fun,
Craig
10-18-2011, 12:35 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
- tentative driving of a piece of history or
- race technology moving on in 30 years
10-18-2011, 12:48 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
i was pretty amazed by how quickly those two were when passing the 956 / 962 variants. I know that the vintage cars are high $$$$$$$ pieces, but i was left wondering how much of the pace difference was because of,
- tentative driving of a piece of history or
- race technology moving on in 30 years
10-18-2011, 02:41 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I had my first 993 10 years ago with a mild track setup. pss-9 r comp tires and track pads,
I would run with the fastest in my instructor groups win my class in pca time trials etc..
I also would do about 10 track days a year then. Now I have a stock 993 on street tires and I have a difficult time holding my own in the instructor session. Even spec miatas are tough for me to fight off at Summit Point. I do have a total of six track days in the past 3 years and I have gotten slower as the technology of newer cars has improved. I believe i can get back to where I was with more track time.
But I am tempted for more hp to help me get faster as well. Even though I am an instructor and have been since the late 90's I do need more training.
I would run with the fastest in my instructor groups win my class in pca time trials etc..
I also would do about 10 track days a year then. Now I have a stock 993 on street tires and I have a difficult time holding my own in the instructor session. Even spec miatas are tough for me to fight off at Summit Point. I do have a total of six track days in the past 3 years and I have gotten slower as the technology of newer cars has improved. I believe i can get back to where I was with more track time.
But I am tempted for more hp to help me get faster as well. Even though I am an instructor and have been since the late 90's I do need more training.
10-18-2011, 02:49 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
i was pretty amazed by how quickly those two were when passing the 956 / 962 variants. I know that the vintage cars are high $$$$$$$ pieces, but i was left wondering how much of the pace difference was because of,
- tentative driving of a piece of history or
- race technology moving on in 30 years
10-18-2011, 04:59 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I truly think DEs are more driver skill then horsepower. I remember at Road America watching a Spec 944 blowing the doors off most other cars on the track.
After my first year of doing DEs my instructor cautioned against doing a bunch of mods like big red brakes and PSS-10s, and recommended getting better seats, a 5-point harness, a roll bar, and a hans helmet. I went ahead and did the suspension--mostly because I got a good deal from Viper Bob. I cut corners and bought a BK harness truss instead of doing it right with seats and a bar. After one track event I realized my mistake. You want to go faster spend $3,000 to $6,000 for some good seats that will allow you to use full harnesses, and get a DAS roll bar for safety. You will be faster and have more fun all because you are strapped in correctly. The bonus for all this is your wife will concur with the purchases because of the safety aspect.
Take care,
--Joe
After my first year of doing DEs my instructor cautioned against doing a bunch of mods like big red brakes and PSS-10s, and recommended getting better seats, a 5-point harness, a roll bar, and a hans helmet. I went ahead and did the suspension--mostly because I got a good deal from Viper Bob. I cut corners and bought a BK harness truss instead of doing it right with seats and a bar. After one track event I realized my mistake. You want to go faster spend $3,000 to $6,000 for some good seats that will allow you to use full harnesses, and get a DAS roll bar for safety. You will be faster and have more fun all because you are strapped in correctly. The bonus for all this is your wife will concur with the purchases because of the safety aspect.
Take care,
--Joe
10-18-2011, 10:28 PM
#37
I know their are many ways to take this question and also that is ultimately up to the owner to decide what is right for them but I would like to hear some thoughts from this august grouping.
I like to run with the some of the more modern cars (997's) if possible, Gt3's if possible with my 993. Aside from driver talent, which I know is most important, is it really possible to make a 993 competitive. And if so is it at such a cost that its silly. By that I mean that even though I love my 993 it still seems questionable to spend $20-30k on upgrades to a $30k car when you could probably use that to get into a 997 or 996 GT3 and do better yet.
My car already has upgraded suspension and brakes but the newer cars are still easily faster. I am sometimes tempted to look into power upgrades (SC or 9M heads) but even if you could match their power would the inherent chassis and other deficiencies make parity a pipe dream?
What do you think? Would you just be satisfied where you are, upgrade a little, a lot or move to a different car. If you are an upgrader what do you reccommend?
(I ask this knowing some of you can run with the 'better' cars already. For you, how did you get there and are you tempted to move up?)
I like to run with the some of the more modern cars (997's) if possible, Gt3's if possible with my 993. Aside from driver talent, which I know is most important, is it really possible to make a 993 competitive. And if so is it at such a cost that its silly. By that I mean that even though I love my 993 it still seems questionable to spend $20-30k on upgrades to a $30k car when you could probably use that to get into a 997 or 996 GT3 and do better yet.
My car already has upgraded suspension and brakes but the newer cars are still easily faster. I am sometimes tempted to look into power upgrades (SC or 9M heads) but even if you could match their power would the inherent chassis and other deficiencies make parity a pipe dream?
What do you think? Would you just be satisfied where you are, upgrade a little, a lot or move to a different car. If you are an upgrader what do you reccommend?
(I ask this knowing some of you can run with the 'better' cars already. For you, how did you get there and are you tempted to move up?)
I'd concentrate on the best suspension that can be installed followed by the best geared trans that you can afford.
A cheaper way to go about it might be to by a later car or if you like projects an SC/RS type car w/ 3.6.
But it also depends on the region if you get an entries like this fuh get aboud it!
The car w/ orange wheels iss by far the slowest in the picture
10-18-2011, 10:44 PM
#39
But the point is any well setup car is going to be more fun, jsy not as ultimatly quick as some of the later offerings unless you spend cubic $s to get something relly special.
I know of a couple of projects were 997 Cup engines are going in 993s, that should be really sweet
10-18-2011, 11:10 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
There are a million ways to make the car faster, including buying more car. What are your goals as a driver? Personally, I find myself dialing back lately, to a point somewhere beneath my ragged edge where I can learn something new with my weekend. It's working for me, I'm carrying almost as much speed as I used to and relying less on brakes and power to get me there. I am definitely not the fastest hack in the red run group; the day I tell myself I'm done learning is the day I get a bus pass.
It's ridiculous how much horsepower is out there lately. I love my 997 and won't stop driving it on the track, but I'm seriously considering a cheap, light trackbitch that cuts cost and relies heavily on my input to drive clean. I'd spend a tenth of your suggested 993 upgrade budget on one of the following: pro coach or momentum car. Your car will feel twice as fast after stepping out of a Miata.
Happy hunting!
It's ridiculous how much horsepower is out there lately. I love my 997 and won't stop driving it on the track, but I'm seriously considering a cheap, light trackbitch that cuts cost and relies heavily on my input to drive clean. I'd spend a tenth of your suggested 993 upgrade budget on one of the following: pro coach or momentum car. Your car will feel twice as fast after stepping out of a Miata.
Happy hunting!
10-18-2011, 11:15 PM
#41
There are a million ways to make the car faster, including buying more car. What are your goals as a driver? Personally, I find myself dialing back lately, to a point somewhere beneath my ragged edge where I can learn something new with my weekend. It's working for me, I'm carrying almost as much speed as I used to and relying less on brakes and power to get me there. I may not be the fastest hack in the red run group, but the day I tell myself I'm done learning is the day I get a bus pass.
It's ridiculous how much horsepower is out there lately. I love my 997 and won't stop driving it on the track, but I'm seriously considering a cheap, light trackbitch that cuts cost and relies heavily on my input to drive clean. I'd spend a tenth of your suggested 993 upgrade budget on one of the following: pro coach or momentum car. Your car will feel twice as fast after stepping out of a Miata.
Happy hunting!
It's ridiculous how much horsepower is out there lately. I love my 997 and won't stop driving it on the track, but I'm seriously considering a cheap, light trackbitch that cuts cost and relies heavily on my input to drive clean. I'd spend a tenth of your suggested 993 upgrade budget on one of the following: pro coach or momentum car. Your car will feel twice as fast after stepping out of a Miata.
Happy hunting!
