What do you guys think of seam welding?
09-17-2011, 06:43 PM
#16
FD Motorsports carries a Rothsport short shift kit.
For strut tower braces I recommend either the 911 Chips version from Steve Wong, or the Heigo OEM RS brace. I feel that they do add some stiffness to the car, but it's likely imaginary.
What motor mounts are you using?
For strut tower braces I recommend either the 911 Chips version from Steve Wong, or the Heigo OEM RS brace. I feel that they do add some stiffness to the car, but it's likely imaginary.
What motor mounts are you using?
09-17-2011, 07:04 PM
#18
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I have had a C2 993 and now have an RS 993, I also have a N-GT 964 and RS 964 Touring. The difference on all 4 is as you would expect, very very different.
It depends what you want to use your car for.
They all have their merits, they are all different and none are the ultimate incarnation for all things.
What do you want from your car?, what do you want it to do? Once you answer these questions, you can then start to mod your car accordingly.
The difference from a standard C2 / C4 for spirited driving v an RS is significant, but if you use the car everyday and long journey's the C2 is about spot on. For track work N-GT, Cup or RSR is the way for sure, the chassis are just so rigid, welded cage.
It depends what you want to use your car for.
They all have their merits, they are all different and none are the ultimate incarnation for all things.
What do you want from your car?, what do you want it to do? Once you answer these questions, you can then start to mod your car accordingly.
The difference from a standard C2 / C4 for spirited driving v an RS is significant, but if you use the car everyday and long journey's the C2 is about spot on. For track work N-GT, Cup or RSR is the way for sure, the chassis are just so rigid, welded cage.
I already pretty much did a lot to the engine and suspension. I still lack big brakes, but after my trackday on Fri, the stock brakes were up to task. I now realized why I was fishtailing a lot, it was because of my tires! Old tires that practically painted my rear side panels with black dust.
Here is a thread on my mods.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...3r-etc-12.html
After tracking the car, I realized that my hp was ok. No need to get a 305 duration cam for the moment. I need to focus on a rear swaybar and brakes. Surprisingly with my lousy tires, I was able to keep up with the RS. Remember I was down 55hp from him so I think my car did ok. But he had a big advantage in the turns. Took some tips on lines from a friend who has been racing for 30 yrs. Amazing skill level, we were up a gear on several corners! Car was like on the verge of drifting but he kept on catching it.
Still no brake dust since we just arrived.
My bro's motons. Yummy!
09-17-2011, 07:11 PM
#19
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FD Motorsports carries a Rothsport short shift kit.
For strut tower braces I recommend either the 911 Chips version from Steve Wong, or the Heigo OEM RS brace. I feel that they do add some stiffness to the car, but it's likely imaginary.
What motor mounts are you using?
For strut tower braces I recommend either the 911 Chips version from Steve Wong, or the Heigo OEM RS brace. I feel that they do add some stiffness to the car, but it's likely imaginary.
What motor mounts are you using?
I ordered my tires first so the short shifter kit will follow.
09-17-2011, 07:29 PM
#20
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It seems to me that this is one of those mods that very few drivers could take full advantage of. I know a lot of very fast club racers that seem to be very fast, even without a welded tub.
09-17-2011, 07:34 PM
#21
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Its more of the feel of the car that I am after. I dont want to break any lap times.
09-17-2011, 07:49 PM
#22
Race Car
If you are after feel, I would look at a bolt in rollbar and a front strut brace. These make quite a big difference to the overall stiffness of the car. A friend recently drove my car (mods in signature) and he felt my car's turn in was better than his old 996 cup car and the overall feeling was very similar.
There is alot that can be done to improve 993's before going down the path of stitch welding the chassis.
On the "black Dust" on the rear bumper, this can come from alignment issues, too much toe in can cause the tires to scrub sideways and cause this, the black is just tire rubber.....
There is alot that can be done to improve 993's before going down the path of stitch welding the chassis.
On the "black Dust" on the rear bumper, this can come from alignment issues, too much toe in can cause the tires to scrub sideways and cause this, the black is just tire rubber.....
09-17-2011, 07:51 PM
#23
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Hi Paul,
Your rear tires in that picture and in your pictures on your other thread don't look too bad at all. Especially with some heat in them. Maybe it was the compound. However its more likely to have been the suspension set up. It has taken myself and the suspension guy alot of time to get mine just right.
I can recommend the rear solid shims. Youll find these get a good rap from those in the know. They remove the rubber mounting bushes for the rear sub frame and make the rear break away so much more progressive. Adjustable sway bars is a must for some like you running aggressive coil overs. You want them front and rear. They will dial out some understeer. I have the RS ones so cant speak to the others available - but they are very useful especially once you put that LSD in place!
Dont bother with the brakes. You dont need them for one track day a month. If you worry about over heating then put the techart brake duct kit at the front with plumbed in piping and take the brake baking plates off and use a harder pad. I can go 40 laps without fade like this. Big reds are bragging rights only on a car like yours or mine and if you have a spare 3-4k usd then thats fine buts there more important stuff first I think....
Seam welding is chasing ghosts for you IMHO. Absolute red herring for your application. I had it (apparently) in my 93RS and GT3 but couldn't tell. Mixed with everything else it wasn't so noticeable. Unless you've just won lotto I wouldn't bother. Theres so much other better options to make a more rounded package...
Loosing weight will give you the biggest advantage now that you can get for the least spend. You already have the 330 bhp motor now get rid of the door cards, carpet, radio, rear wiper etc and get another 60kg out of that car. If you can get to 1299 Kg half tank without loosing all the comfort features (i.e. keep air con and maybe basic head unit and sunroof) then you will notice a big difference. Between almost empty (1295 kg) and half a tank (1320 kg) I notice little difference but between empty and full (1345 kg) I do notice a difference of urgency under acceleration and turn in on the street. 50kg makes all the difference with these cars and 100kg is a very nice noticeable saving. You know what its like on the Duke. Its the same here too.
Get the front and rear suspension set up just right with expert help using adjustable bars. Have the front tie rods pinned (cheap!), the new A arm bushes installed (you may already have done this but if not certainly will need to soon). Look into using rear solid mounts (Rennline, Gerts or Porsche 993GT2) - you'll get some very good feedback from Colin on these along with Steve and also many of the 993 track junkies. Get some weight out of it. Aim for another 50-70 kg. Corner weight it and breath the brakes like I say.
Unless you are schuie I think this will hold you tight a while.
Cheers
Your rear tires in that picture and in your pictures on your other thread don't look too bad at all. Especially with some heat in them. Maybe it was the compound. However its more likely to have been the suspension set up. It has taken myself and the suspension guy alot of time to get mine just right.
I can recommend the rear solid shims. Youll find these get a good rap from those in the know. They remove the rubber mounting bushes for the rear sub frame and make the rear break away so much more progressive. Adjustable sway bars is a must for some like you running aggressive coil overs. You want them front and rear. They will dial out some understeer. I have the RS ones so cant speak to the others available - but they are very useful especially once you put that LSD in place!
Dont bother with the brakes. You dont need them for one track day a month. If you worry about over heating then put the techart brake duct kit at the front with plumbed in piping and take the brake baking plates off and use a harder pad. I can go 40 laps without fade like this. Big reds are bragging rights only on a car like yours or mine and if you have a spare 3-4k usd then thats fine buts there more important stuff first I think....
Seam welding is chasing ghosts for you IMHO. Absolute red herring for your application. I had it (apparently) in my 93RS and GT3 but couldn't tell. Mixed with everything else it wasn't so noticeable. Unless you've just won lotto I wouldn't bother. Theres so much other better options to make a more rounded package...
Loosing weight will give you the biggest advantage now that you can get for the least spend. You already have the 330 bhp motor now get rid of the door cards, carpet, radio, rear wiper etc and get another 60kg out of that car. If you can get to 1299 Kg half tank without loosing all the comfort features (i.e. keep air con and maybe basic head unit and sunroof) then you will notice a big difference. Between almost empty (1295 kg) and half a tank (1320 kg) I notice little difference but between empty and full (1345 kg) I do notice a difference of urgency under acceleration and turn in on the street. 50kg makes all the difference with these cars and 100kg is a very nice noticeable saving. You know what its like on the Duke. Its the same here too.
Get the front and rear suspension set up just right with expert help using adjustable bars. Have the front tie rods pinned (cheap!), the new A arm bushes installed (you may already have done this but if not certainly will need to soon). Look into using rear solid mounts (Rennline, Gerts or Porsche 993GT2) - you'll get some very good feedback from Colin on these along with Steve and also many of the 993 track junkies. Get some weight out of it. Aim for another 50-70 kg. Corner weight it and breath the brakes like I say.
Unless you are schuie I think this will hold you tight a while.
Cheers
09-17-2011, 08:11 PM
#24
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Hi M. Yeah rear solid shims sound good. Bang for d buck!
Steven - Very good point. Maybe a roll cage and front strut brace. My alignment was just done when I set my negative camber. Toe-in is neutral. Ill have it checked today. I can have somebody do a custom roll cage. Do you think the RS cage will be ok? The shop owner also has a RS so it would be easy to copy.
Steven - Very good point. Maybe a roll cage and front strut brace. My alignment was just done when I set my negative camber. Toe-in is neutral. Ill have it checked today. I can have somebody do a custom roll cage. Do you think the RS cage will be ok? The shop owner also has a RS so it would be easy to copy.
09-17-2011, 08:30 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Just my 2 cents...
But if stiff is your goal, build a full weld in cage that connects to the suspension pickup points. Will be much stiffer than seam welding. RS cage is not a good model to follow.
But if stiff is your goal, build a full weld in cage that connects to the suspension pickup points. Will be much stiffer than seam welding. RS cage is not a good model to follow.
09-17-2011, 08:34 PM
#26
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I have seen them on Dawe cars. That is hard work! What will be a good cage to follow? 993 RSR?
09-17-2011, 08:47 PM
#27
These guys are giving great advise. I would skip the seam welding myself for your usage.
I'll just add, you should advise your brother to put some proper clamps on those Moton reservoirs. In case of some sort of mishap they could go flailing about the cabin. Not a desirable thing at any time.
Phil
I'll just add, you should advise your brother to put some proper clamps on those Moton reservoirs. In case of some sort of mishap they could go flailing about the cabin. Not a desirable thing at any time.
Phil
09-17-2011, 08:47 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Do keep in mind that if you decide to tie in the cage with the suspension points, a great mod, BTW, you will not be able to run the car in a stock class (GT only) and any prospective buyer will have to run the car in NASA racing or PCA's GT class.