CP

Hi,

My first car was a 1966 Ford Fairlane, bought in 1969. My next 'Ford' was a Mercury Villager. Both left me the conviction that I will NOT buy a Ford, or for that matter, another American, car ever again.

Now fast forward to 2011/2012, we are looking for a car for my wife to replace her Odyssey. She wants high seating position, so it will only be a SUV or a minivan. My initial thought is that being empty-nesters, why take a minivan. The I found this:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rid/index.html

My wife drives mostly short town trips. Thus the gas mileage of her current rides (Odyssey and RX 330) is quite pitiful. The Odyssey is WAAAY too big. Even the RX is a little big for daily run-abouts. So if the Odyssey goes (we are keeping the RX), the next car can be a smaller car for convenience. I'm more liking the hybrids because of her mostly-town pattern. The current 6-cylinder hybrids (RX 450, Highlander) really do not get that good on mileage. The only 4-cylinder hybrid would be the Ford Escape, or the Audi Q5, coming next year.

Seeing the new C-Max hybrid, it seems to fit the bill very nicely. It is smaller, yet sits high, and could get mid-40 MPG in town. My only reservation: It's a Ford! But reading a lot more on the newer Fords, they seem to do much better than Fords even 3-4 years ago. That is why I am seeking your collective wisdom. If you have late model Fords, please let me know what you think about Ford cars. I do like the Q5 a LOT. But I'm kind of worried about a first-ever Audi hybrid. Ford at least had the Escape hybrid out for 4-5 years.

I appreciate all the education you care to give me.

CP

JM993

They've improved significantly. I think you have to pick your spots with Fords, though IMHO they are the best of the American cars. Case in point, I think the recent F150s are a great trucks - so much so that I recently bought one (was looking at Tundras and Titans too). Believe it or not, the F150 is as well or better put together than its Japanese competitors and a lot better looking too. On the other hand, some of the other Fords of the same vintage kinda suck. In other words, for every Focus or F150, there's a Taurus or Villager........

I'd be much more suspect of Audi reliability than Ford.

Oh, and I'd rather have a Ford GT than any Ferrari

Cheers,
Joe

race911

Kind of a broad brush you're painting with there. Things change over a 50 year span. Just look at, uh, Porsches. Was up-and-close with at '63 T6 Super Coupe yesterday, and how can you even think that came from the same company that puts out SUVs and sedans today?

More to the point, how much are you going to save annually with 35MPG v. 25MPG if you're running around town. And that's IF something like an Escape Hybrid can go mid-30s. I looked at one closely as a runabout maybe 3 years ago for the vending company, and it just made no sense even at 12-15K/yr. Was cheaper to get a small van at 2/3 the mileage, that cost 25%.

95 NC 993

I would have no hesitation buying a Ford today. I've owned 2 Mustangs during the 'evil' times that you mentioned and I loved them. If I could swing a new 2011 Mustang GT with it's 412 HP 5.0L I would not hesitate for a moment. It would look good next to my 993. My biggest problems with Ford from the past were the dealerships, with poor and uncaring customer service. Today's Ford dealers?? Hopefully better.

Resident Sicko

Agree the "new Ford" has made a complete turn around from 10 years ago. I am a car designer by trade and left the industry right before the collapse. Ford Motorsport was one of my clients (as well as Roush and SVT) and after I moved from Michigan, was so impressed with the business plan, product direction and executive leadership that I turned around and bought a good chunk of stock.
Recently ordered a 2012 Focus and have to admit the product lineup is amazng. Build quality, materials, technology and focus on target markets make this previous Honda faithful convinced. While many are adopting "global platforms", Ford had understood the value of "global cars". The C-Max, Focus, Fusion and the rest of the line up are by far a notch above everyone else for the price point.

I cannot sy enough about the eco-boost and hope they continue the roll with bringing the Focus ST over from Europe. The RS is just too much to hope for....but I for one would buy it.

In other words, Ford=good.

Benton

Didn't the C-Max just get the ax for US sale?

hodmandod

My uncle, a great car enthusiast in the 40's used to say 'the Ford is my car, I shall not want', but times have changed. I think their trucks are great, and I have had a good experience with my diesel F250. However, if you are looking at hybrids, it is clear you either want to be green, or save money, or both. You will pay a premium for the hybrid part of the car. I have a Toyota Prius, which consistently gives me 54 mpg, and that, my friends, is money in the bank. You have to get over the fact that it looks like Spock, and won't pull the skin off a rice pudding, but I live with that (and the 993!)

Philip

NC TRACKRAT

Ford rocks! Our F150 FX4 SuperCrew is a work-horse/limo. Luxurious, fully-equipped and earns it's keep. RACE911 is on target. Suggest that you look not so much at fuel economy but the big picture: Carrying capacity, features, safety, durability, re-sale value. Over the life of a vehicle, fuel cost is but a small percentage of the total which includes depreciation, insurance, taxes, etc. Ford EDGE is one good-looking vehicle that bears consideration.

cmat

I also like the concept of the C-Max and will give it a close look when it comes out. I think the Mazda 5 is essentially the same vehicle but it's not available as a hybrid.

FisterD

I have had great luck with Fords over my lifetime. I still miss my F150. The new owner contacted me about a year ago to tell me the truck has been trouble free. It was a big beast but drove really well. Many trips to LA with the family. I did not enjoy filling it up at the gas station though...ouch!
I have an F250 work truck and my son has an Escape. All are very reliable.

CP

Folks,

Thanks for the input, and confidence in the new Ford.

Gas mileage aside, her constant (really) short trips (4-6 miles, to gym, groceries) is bad for the engine. It'll kill a 993 in no time. In the hybrid, at least the electric motors 'could' help mitigate that situation (could be dead wrong on that).

I am also seriously considering the RAV4, but even with a 4 cylinder, that only gets about 20 mpg in town. Wife's sister has a new Lexus ct200h, and gets 52 mpg in real life. We typically own our cars 10+ years (till they die on their own). There is a few bucks of gas savings between 45 and 20 mpg over all these years. My wife does not like the tc200h as it is basically a Prius hatch-back with a Lexus interior. She wants to sit high.

Our BIL has an Escape. The seats and interior are terrible. That is why it is not in the running. If the RAV4 or the Venza comes out with a 4-cylinder hybrid, they would certainly make our choices better. But now the RAV4 will only be a EV (Tesla engine/battery). We may just go with the Q5 2.0T. That is not a bad choice.

CP

chaoscreature

Have you looked into a Jetta TDI Wagon? It doesn't ride as high as an SUV, but it gets good mileage, holds it's value well and looks respectable. IMO most "SUV's" are just rebadged mini-vans or wagons anyways. If you aren't planning on off-roading the car, most wagons will have better ergonomics and aerodynamics and typically still have decent towing capacities. If ALL of the trips are very short I think there are still some very good tax breaks and rebates for complete electric vehicles as well.

Back to the original question, I happen to have a 1966 Fairlane Sedan inside my trailer... and it's NOT a bad car... sure it overheats, breaks down every couple hundred miles, gets 5mpg, leaks every fluid possible, handles poorly, brakes poorly, is slow by todays standards and isn't safe, but I would still have no problem buying a new Ford today

race911

No, it won't. I have no idea where the "conventional wisdom" turned 911 engines into these fragile beings. You guys have any idea how beat on the cars were in the old days? When they weren't 3rd-4th-8th cars in a fleet? Most of my customers with either of my shops had one as their only car. The best example I have is the '79 SC that dropped in my lap from a neighbor. 100K on it, and it had maybe 6 oil changes in its life. Guy's commute was 5 miles to the hospital. When I pulled it apart (massive oil leaks) I found I could have re-used all the bearings.

Similarly, any number of my track, NA or forced induction, engines have looked good inside when I've had the occasion to go back into them. Often being run hard at the extremes--cold (think 830A qualify on a 45F morning where there's no time to dick around) and hot (think 4P session on a 105F afternoon). Amazingly robust engines.

dcdude

I had a 93 Bronco, 95 Mustang GT, 99 Mustang V6. All well-maintained. Zero problems or breakdowns across all three. Black paint on the '99 failed a bit and was re-shot under warranty. I'd buy any of them again.

I rented a Chevy Traverse crossover last summer. Had three rows and plenty of space for a family of four and baby gear. I thought it was a nice car, but man, it sucked a lot of gas for a 3.5L FWD V6. 18 MPG with mostly freeway driving!

It's Chrysler products that concern me. I've rented a PT Cruiser, Chrysler 300M and Dodge minivan lately. All seemed to be of marginal quality. 300M drove best, PT Cruiser was worst. National Car Rental was partially at fault with the van.

My biggest rental car surprise from a few years back was a Kia Optima. I was expecting the worst, but found it very Camry-like. I'd consider buying a Kia if it was (dirt) cheap enough.

In your last thread, I sent you a link to owner ratings for Escape on MSN Autos. It was top rated. You may also want to check Edmunds as well.

ca993twin

While I have no phobia about American cars, my DD is a Scion xA. If and when it ever dies, I LOVE the new Ford Focus hatchback as a likely replacement. Its hard to fight that "I want to sit way up high" thing that a lot of women have. Too bad.