nile13

Adam, I suggest that you relax and re-read what I've written. The forum belongs to _us_. That includes you, the FS-posting newbie guy and anyone else who is reading or writing here. As such, this collective makes up the unwritten rules of the forum. In other words, we decide what;s cool and what's not cool. On top of that there are written rules from IB (and previously from John D.) that are to be stretched a bit, maybe, but generally adhered to.

If you have been a member of enough forums, you know how they work. And you know what contributions are. It can be technical, it can be ambiance, it can be anything. But that, again, defines what's OK and what's not OK on a given forum.

My problem with OP is not the asking price. It's a combination of improprieties that, wen taken separately, don't smell too bad, but when combined together do give off quite a suspicious odor. To his defense, he seems to be a nice polite guy, so maybe it's all on the up and up. Nevertheless, I wish he started his Renn-biography differently.

asofine

Perhaps I am getting a little riled up. Nonetheless, I stand by my statement that this board doesn't "belong" to you, me, or any collective existing userbase. It belongs to anybody who wants to discuss p-cars and adheres to the rules. And if the OP inadvertently violated a rule, but quickly and politely apologized for doing so and corrected his mistake (which he did), then he too is welcome.

Out of curiosity, if I take you at your word when you say that the price didn't enter into your problems with the OP, then what exactly is this "combination of factors" you mention? Aside from the possibility that there is more to the story of the relationship between the OP and the car's owner, which is but one factor, what is this combination of factors you allude to?

Stepping back, I understand your suspicion of the OP, in fact I share it to a degree. I also understand the protective attitude of tenured posters towards a forum. That said, (and I've said this countless times now), the OP was informative, polite, and tactful. If the "tenured" forums of this community can't reply in kind, what does it say about the existing community?? All I've been calling for is tact and politeness from other users. Like I've said, I have no problem with suspicion, but it should be positioned in a respectful manner, which I believe was not the case in this thread.

Busta Rib

Guys, the sniping and elitism on this forum never ceases to amaze me. All it serves is to perpetuate the undeserved bad rep Rennlist has on other forums. The only thing the OP did wrong is post an ad as a User. I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked already.

But the Member vs User bias and elitism has got to stop. This is a public forum and paid membership (although it has its privileges) is optional. To wit:

quoted from Bob Rouleau, Administrator in this thread (https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...rrerid=56396):

"Guys, I think this thread has covered all the ground. Please note that it has always been and still is Rennlist Policy that membership is voluntary. We do not demean non-members. Non-menbers need not defend their choice."

asofine

agreed

gonzilla

Does it come with the engine tray?

nile13

Ummm, perhaps read the rules? That state that no For Sale postings are allowed from non-members.

That is before you trow stones at others. And before discussing some "bad rep" that Rennlist has on other forums (it did make me laugh out loud, though, as Rennlist is pretty much the singular reason why I own a 993).

nile13

What it says that, due to experience, some of us have pretty well tune BS radar. Not that it's never wrong. But it's more often right than not. Again, i'm talking about a collective radar, not individual. Powerful thing, that.

More to a point. If OP wanted to _correct- his mistake, he would have deleted the ad as it is against the rule. Optionally he would have then become a member and re-post the ad. Ideally, he would hang around the board, talk about cars, ask questions, offer opinions or something of value, than re-posted the ad. That's how it works around here. This is, after all, not a used car lot. It's a discussion forum. Which happens to have a sister forum where For Sale ads are appropriate.

The "combination of factors" that jump are:
- First post - "For sale" post.
- Non-member "For sale" post, disregarding the rule (no, he did not "correct" it even after specifically being told so).
- Selling somebody else's car.
- Overpriced car.

To counter the OP exhibited:

- Being pretty polite and nice.
- Putting up a bunch of pertinent info and detailed pictures.

So, it's a wash. Which is unfortunate. Because if I'm buying a car for 10K, let alone for $80K, I'd like there not to be _any_ smell of impropriety at all.

BTW, I think we've been pretty polite here. Partially because most of the old codgers have left the building, partially because it's too early and partially because the transgressions are not egregious enough. So we've replied very much in kind in this case. But, again, each of us has an opinion and never shall they be the same.

Busta Rib

Mike, your trite comment is a demonstration of what I speak. I don't understand the defensiveness. If you read my post fully, you would see I acknowledged the OP was in error/violation of the forum posting rules: "The only thing the OP did wrong is post an ad as a User. I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked already." As per forum rules, these types of ads are typically locked.

Without getting into an internet pissing match, let's agree to disagree. We all have a common love of Porsches, I just wish it would translate into civil discussion without the sniping and bitching. It is rampant around here sometimes.

asofine

Let's agree to disagree (I understand your points and still disagree, but neither of us is swaying the other at this point). Kudos to all parties involved for not letting this digress into a more petty argument.

briefescape

Asofine agree to disagree because if you just agree with Nile13 you will be both wrong

Cheers Guy

nile13

Agreed

Andrew Shannon

Hey everyone,

First things first - thank you for all the replies. I don't mind the criticism from the senior members; you guys have clearly been around this forum for a while, and I don't want to come off as a disrespectful or ignorant intruder.

I must have missed the fact that there was a For Sale section to the forums. If an admin is reading this, could you please transfer the thread to the proper section? Or would it be wise for me to simply start a new thread?

I don't mind the concerns being posted about the car - if anyone is legitimately interested in buying this car, then he/ she should know about topics of concern (that's where price negotiation comes into play when buying ANY vehicle, no?). The rolled fenders, the custom front end, the lack of the "Turbo" badge - these are all modifications that the owner felt contributed to the overall value of the car, and if you're not a fan of it, that's perfectly fine. Other people may appreciate the TLC he's put into this 993 as the collector of many Porsches throughout the years.

There's only so much that can be said about this topic, because some people are skeptical about the identities of online posters, but no, I'm not a used car dealer. I'm a college student in Southern California. The owner is a family friend who's up north in the Bay Area, and he's enlisted my help because I simply have more experience selling items online through craigslist and other forums. I recently sold my own Yamaha FZ1 motorcycle by utilizing the online Owners Association forum, and so when this owner emailed me about the 993, I thought it was logical to search for a site like this. Judging from the passion in the responses, I was correct.

I personally can't offer price reductions or make any real deals about shipping or bargaining etc - I'm just the friendly liaison between anyone who might be interested and the actual owner. Seriously, if anyone has any further concerns about my postings, the information provided, the car itself, and so forth, just let me know. If you think you'd consider buying the car, I'm happy to put you in contact with the owner.

Have a good day everyone, and a sincere thank you to those who have sent me PMs with your support! Now I'm off to class, but I'll check back in later this afternoon.

- Andrew

goofballdeluxe

Andrew, and that's EXACTLY the reason why the owner should be selling is car here, and not you.

C'mon. It's 2011 for Pete's sake. Loading a photo and writing a description is something any 5-year old can do these days. It's not hard. Maybe your friend is just rich and lazy, but this "not tech-savvy" stuff made sense in 2002 maybe, but it couldn't be any easier these days.

You seem like a nice guy, but the old saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions sure applies here. If he's not paying you to sell his car, then not only is he rich and stupid, but he's also cheap too.

Good luck with the sale of your, er, his car.

asofine

Goofball, you've been by far the least respectful of any poster here.

If the owner of this car isn't tech-savvy enough to join a forum and post a for sale ad, that is a) his "problem" and b) his prerogative. I know several people who would not be comfortable doing this themselves. And insofar as this being "EXACTLY" the reason that this poster shouldn't be doing this on behalf of the owner - give me a break. No deal for this car is going to be made solely on Rennlist (with a first time poster) without somebody seeing this car in-person. That person will certainly meet the owner in person and they can negotiate a price. There is nothing wrong with a poster posting the pictures of a friend's car with a friend's asking price and offering to refer potential buyers directly to the owner. That you have your panties up in a bunch over it is bizarre. Moreover, your repeated insistence that everybody better be as tech-savvy as you or I is downright rude. You've called the owner "stupid" and "cheap" and repeatedly called the OP's character into question. Shame on you for doing this to a perfectly polite first time poster. I can only hope what goes around comes around on these forums.

chsu74

^ I beg to differ. I bought my car owned by a Rennlister on this site and specifically looked to buy one here. It was a 24 hr impulsive buy. Although I researched the car for well over a year, I knew what I wanted and did not hesitate because it was a lister's car and the price is right.

I bought a $99 one way ticket to Chicago and drove it back to CT. There is no way I would have done it if I had found a car elsewhere.