Ken, what does a top-end rebuild cost including rings, going all out, no corners cut?

Lets assume the crank and conrod bearings are perfect.

I've got one-third your mileage and just like aircraft, price would be time to overhaul dependent. Many may not see it that way or even think about it, but its a fact to be considered.

 

Depends where you are. Depends what needs to be done. We've got guys here who've used a small, low overhead independent in the Northeast paying half (or less) what some of the "name" shops in metro areas charge. Who's better? My C4S was simply a valve guide and SAI cleanout at 75K for the original owner, 50% courtesy by Porsche since it failed CA smog.

My belief, and not based on 3.6L experience since my 3.6/3.8L cars just run (as opposed to the 2.0-2.7L cars + busted 930s I made money on when I had my shops in the '80s and '90s) is that the valve guides are iffy after 80-100K, but everything else lasts pretty much indefinitely. I wouldn't touch the P/C set until you're pushing (or over) 200K. Rod bearings past 150K? I'll leave that to those with more expertise. Beyond that, it's cams and associated parts. Inspect, and go from there. Same with valves. Look at the stem taper. On the earlier engines, intakes showed the wear.

In any case, it's not cheap. And I kind of laugh at the typical 120K (+/- 20K) that's for sale where the owner goes on and on about this, that, and the other having been done to the car. It's automotive musical chairs, and whoever the owner is at 130-160K is going to pay the freight. I was up against this with the RSA I just sold. I found a buyer who understands the top end was DIY priced into the car, at the very least. He may fix it all up, he may just fix a couple of leaks and roll the dice. Out of my hands now.

 

I'm not sure if knowing him has any relevance to anything, other than you do. That doesn't mean he knows market value of these cars. He is obviously low, and the comparison between value of a cab and a coupe is ridiculous $6500 more.Sounds like he is a friend of yours, so call him up and help him out. Explain to him if he wants to have such discrepancies in valuations of "Good" cars, he needs to disclaim what a "Good" car is in his mind. If he is going to write such garbage without such, 993 owners should and will question his qualifications.

 

What does it matter who knows who? or who can call who? His pricing has always been off. He might had been a great resource for Porsche during his days, but he is out of touch with reality. Simple as that. If you can call him up, please do so, and tell him that I kindly ask to let someone else that knows about real market value, to do pricing from now on. For the sake of the Porsche community, for the sake of Excellence Magazine, and for the sake of his own reputation.

 

Mainly because the comments throughout this, and other, threads wouldn't be said to someone's face.

I can go back and rehash my initial experience with Bruce, Jerry Woods and the rest of the Garretson Enterprises gang who, along with PCA guys like Jim Pasha, were extremely generous with their time and advice to me 30 years ago at age 18 with a 911 that had a broken engine.

My original comment here was that these prices are in the context of "good." Look at what Mark D is passing along in that cab. I'd say that car is well above "good," yet the asking price is right in the middle of the pricing guidance. Yet another I see someone mentioned he is buying was listed at a dealer just above the high. I have to believe the final negotiated price was somewhat less, and that car is likely more of what we'd call good as opposed to excellent.

I get that 90+% of you here have cars considered excellent, or better.

Ultimately, a car is worth whatever a willing buyer and seller agree on.

 

Yes it has
Excellence is far from it when it comes to pricing. 'Out of touch' perhaps??

 

So this guy was nice to you 30 years ago and helped you out when you had a broken engine, for that reason we are suppose to
1. Care 2. Be scared to tell it it his face 3. Ignore his unrealistic article on 993 prices? Sounds like you are living in the past, and are in denial yourself. I'll be sure to add your name to his, on the list of peoples opinion I should most definitely ignore.

 

As one who shopped 993's lately, I'd say the prices are low. To me, the real price check is that he only bumps a 964 up $800 when he values '94's and then prices the '95. I'd say on the open market, two like cars (964 & 993) similarly featured, similar miles and condition.....wouldn't the 993 commend a few thousand $ premium to a knowledgable buyer?

 

yes, at least a few thousand

 

based on 5-6k miles a year for a 95 = 80-100k miles, then maybe the evaluation falls in line for a good car.
but prices are no where near there for clean, unmolested cars with under 50k miles.
I do agree that what is excellent condition can be a very wide range depending on expectations.
But the truly good cars, purchased by the most **** buyers, will command top dollar and much higher prices posted by excellence, and always will.
I think the general population on rennlist gets a little defensive, and rightfully so, when others come on here and beat up the pricing on the 993.

 

I've spoken with the editor of Excellence several times about this. Even told him I'd give him $100K, and have Bruce Anderson find me 3 993 C2S cars for that money... Finally gave up. The magazine is very good and I thoroughly enjoy reading it. That particular section, not so much. I'd love to get a $30K 996TT as well, or a $40K 964 3.6T but that's a (slightly) different topic.

 

And the vast majority of those agreed upon prices are nowhere close to what is published in that magazine.

 

I think not only do we get defensive as Justin mentioned, but alot of us would have 2-3 of these cars in our garages of different types if these prices were true. Track car, garage queen, parts car.....a color for every day of the week.

 

You may have some good points here, but your tone is a little inconsistent with how this board is generally conducted. Ken's a great resource. One day, you'll be crying in your garage, covered in oil and grease from some DIY gone wrong. More than likely, Ken will be one of the people who will be here with a reply and good solution to save your ***.

 

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