Almost made a huge mistake today
12-11-2010, 03:56 PM
#123
Rennlist Member
Whalebird: Sounds lovely. I agree with some of your ideas but...
Can you define honest?
What is the clear design objective?
Do you define lego-like hard plastic interior as "quality"?
How is a +3,700lb "sports car" efficient?
How is a new car with a suspension design from the last century not a design compromise?
What is it's purpose in your opinion? To me, a +3700lb, 415HP car with an outdated suspension is not a sports car. It's a good car to do burnouts with. It is definitely not how I would define a driver's car. A driver's car is nimble (light) and intuitive (good suspension) regardless of power. Like the Miata, the 993 the Hyundai you reference.
Because the Mustang badge has been around for 45 years, it has nostalgic appeal to baby boomers. Point taken. Beyond that, what is the target market for a fat pig with a big block you can buy for $36k? Hint: Who bought the 5.0L Mustangs form the 80's? Snobbery and facts are two different things.
Can you define honest?
Do you define lego-like hard plastic interior as "quality"?
How is a +3,700lb "sports car" efficient?
How is a new car with a suspension design from the last century not a design compromise?
The socio-economic market strata they may fall into is not part of this discussion beyond pure car-snobbery. I know many well heeled people in my community that have a garage full of the coolest cars and often, there is a Mustang GT next to a collection of exotic iron of all orgins.
12-11-2010, 04:15 PM
#124
Rennlist Member
Yup, the Mustang is a heavy pig. But it only weighs a few hundred pounds more than your '95 993. It also benefits from 130 more horses and torques.
Since the 2011 Mustang runs about the same as a 2011 BMW M3 around a racetrack, I think you'd be in for a rude awakening, even in the twisties.
The 2011 Mustang is a better performance car by the numbers in every way over the Porsche 993. Again, I'm not a fan, and I wouldn't want one over my 993 C4S, but I'm even less of a fan of delusions of grandeur.
You'd get your *** kicked in any race with your '95 993 vs. a 2011 Mustang GT. But you'd still have the overall better car, in my opinion.
Since the 2011 Mustang runs about the same as a 2011 BMW M3 around a racetrack, I think you'd be in for a rude awakening, even in the twisties.
The 2011 Mustang is a better performance car by the numbers in every way over the Porsche 993. Again, I'm not a fan, and I wouldn't want one over my 993 C4S, but I'm even less of a fan of delusions of grandeur.
You'd get your *** kicked in any race with your '95 993 vs. a 2011 Mustang GT. But you'd still have the overall better car, in my opinion.
12-11-2010, 04:44 PM
#127
If your car is stock with no major modifications, I'll take that bet. Me, or my driver of choice, in a 2011 Mustang GT vs. you in your 1995 Porsche Carrera on an agreed racetrack.
How about we say the winner of the race gets the other person's car? Personally I'd rather play for even higher stakes, but name the wager, place and time, please.
How about we say the winner of the race gets the other person's car? Personally I'd rather play for even higher stakes, but name the wager, place and time, please.
12-11-2010, 05:01 PM
#129
Racer
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There's a reason why I have less than 500 posts in 10 years (well many reasons) but one is that I never get pulled in by troll posts. It doesnt bother me that you're trolling or even that this thread is reaching 10 pages but I would never waste my time with a 993 v. mustang debate. It was funny at first to see people pulled in by your trolling but now its not the least bit interesting. Now if you started a 993 v. Camry post you might have something.
[QUOTE=Quadcammer;8125000]Many car enthusiasts love mustangs. There is a reason they have been so popular since 1964.5. 99% end up as scrap? Don't be ignorant.
Just because in 5 years, there will be used mustangs in the high school parking lot, doesn't mean they are poor cars.
I can respect corvettes, WRX STIs, EVOs, etc, as good performance cars, even if I don't like them or want to buy one.
Why can't you do the same?
[QUOTE=Quadcammer;8125000]Many car enthusiasts love mustangs. There is a reason they have been so popular since 1964.5. 99% end up as scrap? Don't be ignorant.
Just because in 5 years, there will be used mustangs in the high school parking lot, doesn't mean they are poor cars.
I can respect corvettes, WRX STIs, EVOs, etc, as good performance cars, even if I don't like them or want to buy one.
Why can't you do the same?
12-11-2010, 05:15 PM
#130
Instructor
Join Date: Mar 2010
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I'm not talking race tracks and professional drivers here. I'm talking the guys who actually buy these cars- suburban dad reliving his high school days and thinks he's got an "awesome sports car"- against a guy with no professional racing experience on one of the twistiest roads around (mostly 3rd and 4th gear hard cornering). I'd put up $500 and I think I'd win! So iif you'd be interested GBD- it would be a he'll of a lot of fun 
12-11-2010, 05:41 PM
#131
Race Car
If your idea of a sports car hinges on articulated rear suspension, then you will strike some of the most important sports cars in history from their status. It is a viable setup and proven - they provide gobs of grip, just ride poorly. Few advancements have been made in automotive architecture since the twenties so the "modern car" is much the same as it's always been. A Mustang could be considered a small GT, like many of the front engine Ferrari's/Aston's etc. Boiling the tires is a task many cars are good at - a 928 ranks highly.
As for "***** extension"... well thats an affront to all car enthusiasts who choose to enjoy something other than what you've chosen to enjoy.
As for "***** extension"... well thats an affront to all car enthusiasts who choose to enjoy something other than what you've chosen to enjoy.
12-11-2010, 05:55 PM
#132
Race Car
I'm not talking race tracks and professional drivers here. I'm talking the guys who actually buy these cars- suburban dad reliving his high school days and thinks he's got an "awesome sports car"- against a guy with no professional racing experience on one of the twistiest roads around (mostly 3rd and 4th gear hard cornering). I'd put up $500 and I think I'd win! So iif you'd be interested GBD- it would be a he'll of a lot of fun
Take it to the track. I've lapped 993s with a variety of 911SCs, all the while being lapped myself by an 80s vintage Mustang Cobra.
Any talk of street racing is strongly prohibited on Rennlist. A good track will seperate the sheep from the goats and the latest Mustangs are serious cars. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
12-11-2010, 06:27 PM
#133
Rennlist Member
If your idea of a sports car hinges on articulated rear suspension, then you will strike some of the most important sports cars in history from their status. It is a viable setup and proven - they provide gobs of grip, just ride poorly. Few advancements have been made in automotive architecture since the twenties so the "modern car" is much the same as it's always been. A Mustang could be considered a small GT, like many of the front engine Ferrari's/Aston's etc. Boiling the tires is a task many cars are good at - a 928 ranks highly.
As for "***** extension"... well thats an affront to all car enthusiasts who choose to enjoy something other than what you've chosen to enjoy.
As for "***** extension"... well thats an affront to all car enthusiasts who choose to enjoy something other than what you've chosen to enjoy.
12-11-2010, 07:34 PM
#134
Instructor
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Feelings not hurt at all- this is all in good fun
I shouldn't have said "win" because that does imply racing, I should have said "keep-up" because I don't think this mustang would keep-up on one of our spirited Duffy Lake Drives. I may be wrong- but I really don't think so. I would love to see one come out and play- but I highly doubt it would ever happen!
I shouldn't have said "win" because that does imply racing, I should have said "keep-up" because I don't think this mustang would keep-up on one of our spirited Duffy Lake Drives. I may be wrong- but I really don't think so. I would love to see one come out and play- but I highly doubt it would ever happen!
12-11-2010, 08:14 PM
#135
Drifting
Real world roads have bumps and other nasty things...timothy moffatt
But I love the Duffy:
Driving a live axle sporty car on it, would be high entertainment.