Almost made a huge mistake today
12-13-2010, 01:37 PM
#167
Drifting
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Bay, Los Angeles
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All these "bets" and other examples of testosterone run amok. What all those who have baited each other with "mine is faster than yours" have forgotten is the competence of the driver. Give me any F1 driver, or even several notches lower (ex. Tanner Faust - of drifting fame) and I'm positive they would run any road course in a rental car faster than any of you could do it in your 993s.
12-13-2010, 02:08 PM
#168
Race Car
Live axle works. As far as unsprung weight, you can have to little. Many teams would fill the hollow aluminum 911 trailing arms with lead shot for endurance racing.
12-13-2010, 03:19 PM
#170
Three Wheelin'
Agreed. I think anyone who has been on track with a well driven S197 Mustang can testify to this. There are some very fast live axle cars out there.
12-13-2010, 06:14 PM
#171
Three Wheelin'
ok....I haven't been on here in a week or so....and I only read the first couple of pages of this thread....and I assuming someone has already said this....but I must say it anyway.....are we REALLY comparing a 2011 Mustang (of any flavor) to a 1995-98 911....WTF??? Nothing against a Mustang (of any flavor), but that is ridiculous....apples & oranges in a big way!
12-14-2010, 04:12 PM
#172
Rennlist Member
12-21-2010, 05:08 PM
#173
Rennlist Member
Last night I was watching Top Gear reruns when I came upon season 9, episode 6 which somehow I missed when it first aired. How I wish I'd known about it before this thread got silly. The GT500 was reviewed and compared to the Roush (tuner Mustang with 415HP and a completely revised suspension).
Interesting that the Roush, which is down 85HP on the GT500 but has a fully independent rear suspension, beat the GT500 by a massive, 2 full seconds. You can see how the GT500 with live-axle wobbles in the turns while the Roush stays planted.
I found the segment on YT. Watch both cars go through the circuit. I can't think of a better way to put the live-axle Mustang debate to rest. It also speaks volumes about what this 500HP car is and isn't (a muscle car, not a sports car) and what it can and can't do (burn rubber, not drive fast on the twisties). As for the rest of the comments about Mustangs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O46E0gCF5os
Interesting that the Roush, which is down 85HP on the GT500 but has a fully independent rear suspension, beat the GT500 by a massive, 2 full seconds. You can see how the GT500 with live-axle wobbles in the turns while the Roush stays planted.
I found the segment on YT. Watch both cars go through the circuit. I can't think of a better way to put the live-axle Mustang debate to rest. It also speaks volumes about what this 500HP car is and isn't (a muscle car, not a sports car) and what it can and can't do (burn rubber, not drive fast on the twisties). As for the rest of the comments about Mustangs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O46E0gCF5os
12-21-2010, 05:29 PM
#174
Race Director
LOL, you just owned yourself there Louie.
The Roush 427R you've seen in that film has a SOLID REAR AXLE.
Amazing what some better shocks and springs do huh Louie?
Furthermore, the roush seemed to handle those turns quite well.
Would you like to try again?
The Roush 427R you've seen in that film has a SOLID REAR AXLE.
Amazing what some better shocks and springs do huh Louie?
Furthermore, the roush seemed to handle those turns quite well.
Would you like to try again?
12-21-2010, 07:05 PM
#175
Rennlist Member
You're absolutely right Quadcammie and my bad. I guess this doesn't put the live-axle debate to rest after all. And I agree, performance shocks, springs, sways, LSD and snubbers made the car 2 seconds quicker than the GT500 despite the 85HP handicap, as should be expected. It just goes to show how ****ty the stock suspension is. Too bad the Roush, with $15k in upgrades, is still 3 seconds back from the stock 415HP M3 despite its heavy weight and even the 320HP Boxster Spyder (that's a whole 5 seconds back from the 500HP GT500). I can only fathom how much further back the 2011 GT would be with stock suspension. So you're right about my misunderstanding on the extent of the suspension upgrades of the Roush. I'm glad it gave you such trolling joy to highlight my mistake. Unfortunately for you, it still doesn't change the other underwhelming qualities inherent to the Mustang so eloquently and clearly laid out in the review. I don't think I've said anything in this thread that is not in agreement with it.
Now, go trade your 993 for a Mustang already will ya?
12-21-2010, 07:23 PM
#176
12-21-2010, 08:05 PM
#177
Race Director
LOL. I'll take trolls for $500 Alex...
You're absolutely right Quadcammie and my bad. I guess this doesn't put the live-axle debate to rest after all. And I agree, performance shocks, springs, sways, LSD and snubbers made the car 2 seconds quicker than the GT500 despite the 85HP handicap, as should be expected. It just goes to show how ****ty the stock suspension is. Too bad the Roush, with $15k in upgrades, is still 3 seconds back from the stock 415HP M3 despite its heavy weight and even the 320HP Boxster Spyder (that's a whole 5 seconds back from the 500HP GT500). I can only fathom how much further back the 2011 GT would be with stock suspension. So you're right about my misunderstanding on the extent of the suspension upgrades of the Roush. I'm glad it gave you such trolling joy to highlight my mistake. Unfortunately for you, it still doesn't change the other underwhelming qualities inherent to the Mustang so eloquently and clearly laid out in the review. I don't think I've said anything in this thread that is not in agreement with it.
Now, go trade your 993 for a Mustang already will ya?
You're absolutely right Quadcammie and my bad. I guess this doesn't put the live-axle debate to rest after all. And I agree, performance shocks, springs, sways, LSD and snubbers made the car 2 seconds quicker than the GT500 despite the 85HP handicap, as should be expected. It just goes to show how ****ty the stock suspension is. Too bad the Roush, with $15k in upgrades, is still 3 seconds back from the stock 415HP M3 despite its heavy weight and even the 320HP Boxster Spyder (that's a whole 5 seconds back from the 500HP GT500). I can only fathom how much further back the 2011 GT would be with stock suspension. So you're right about my misunderstanding on the extent of the suspension upgrades of the Roush. I'm glad it gave you such trolling joy to highlight my mistake. Unfortunately for you, it still doesn't change the other underwhelming qualities inherent to the Mustang so eloquently and clearly laid out in the review. I don't think I've said anything in this thread that is not in agreement with it.
Now, go trade your 993 for a Mustang already will ya?
I had one...700rwhp, swapped the Independent rear for a solid axle, had way more grip than my 993, loved that car a lot...several members have seen it.
Keep insulting the mustang. Do whatever it takes to let you sleep at night. If you can't acknowledge that a mustang has appeal, you are not a car enthusiast in my mind.
What really cracks me up is that NOW you want to start quoting lap times of M3s vs. mustangs, but before, on a real track, not an airport, those arguments (when they favored the mustang) were useless.
Pathetic
12-21-2010, 09:09 PM
#179
Rennlist Member
I'll take porsche nutswingers for $1000
I had one...700rwhp, swapped the Independent rear for a solid axle, had way more grip than my 993, loved that car a lot...several members have seen it.
Keep insulting the mustang. Do whatever it takes to let you sleep at night. If you can't acknowledge that a mustang has appeal, you are not a car enthusiast in my mind.
What really cracks me up is that NOW you want to start quoting lap times of M3s vs. mustangs, but before, on a real track, not an airport, those arguments (when they favored the mustang) were useless.
Pathetic
I had one...700rwhp, swapped the Independent rear for a solid axle, had way more grip than my 993, loved that car a lot...several members have seen it.
Keep insulting the mustang. Do whatever it takes to let you sleep at night. If you can't acknowledge that a mustang has appeal, you are not a car enthusiast in my mind.
What really cracks me up is that NOW you want to start quoting lap times of M3s vs. mustangs, but before, on a real track, not an airport, those arguments (when they favored the mustang) were useless.
Pathetic
I don't like people putting words into my mouth so I'm posting one last time to clarify and then you're welcome to have the last word okay guy?
I put little weight on stats and car magazines that make claims on behalf of advertisers. You want to put weight on that, go ahead. If you find other video from unbiased publications testing the Mustang against something else, please post it. The reason I made a reference to the M3 is because you did so. My comments about the M3 being an unimpressive pig stand and Top Gear's numbers highlight that despite the M3 being similar in weight and power to the Roush-equipped Mustang, it still spanks it...and hard. Now imagine what that would look like if it was the GT with the stock suspension. Clearly far worse than the 5 second variance from the 500HP GT500. There is a reason the results from most commercial car magazines differ from the results of the BBC show. If you don't understand why, I can't help you.
I wont respond to the rest of your comments. Should be self evident to some as to why. Best of luck to you.
