Almost made a huge mistake today
12-10-2010, 02:53 PM
#76
Sorry to chime in again, but a convertible is definitely, without questions, OUT OF SEASON now. Ask ANYONE in the business, who goes to auctions, buy and and sells cars for a living, auctioneers, wholesalers, dealer principles, people who actually fork up moeny, not just talkers, ANYONE would tell you that industry wide, convertibles do sell in winter. Even manufacturers agree, take a look at the trend for conventible incentives, it peaks now, because it is hard to move one.
Thanks for clarifying. I thought it was a dig at me.
Last edited by Bouzoukikid; 12-10-2010 at 03:50 PM.
12-10-2010, 03:07 PM
#77
Ok, so you owned a 27 year old mustang (i'm assuming, since you didn't specify, that you had the 4 banger). You say it was unreliable. How many early 1980s cars would you say WERE reliable? Ever since the SN95 bodystyle, mustangs have done well in reliability. For reference, thats been 16 years.
Am I defending all american cars going all the way back to 1970? Hell no. Am I saying that mustangs are typically solid cars that take plenty of abuse? Absolutely.
20th century? Guy, that was 10+ years ago. Perhaps you need to revisit the situation. Ford and General Motors are producing quality products. If you are judging them based on the cars they produced from 1970 and 1980, you might be surprised.
The mustang is probably one of the few american cars that IS more than the numbers. The noise, the feel, the look, etc. They are special cars, especially the more exclusive models like the cobra. Whether this is meaningful to you probably depends most on what you desired as a kid. Rest assured, many young men and women saw 1960s mustangs and said "that is amazing", just like some of us looked at a longhood and went "wow".
Just so we're clear, porsche doesn't produce faultless cars either. Just about every generation of 911 has had some fairly significant defects, from head studs, to tensioners, to valve guides, to IMS failures, etc etc.
Also, "recent history" doesn't mean 1970 and 1980. The mustang has been a solid car since 1994. There was absolutely nothing falling apart on my 10 year old mustang, and I was hardly gentle with it.
Am I defending all american cars going all the way back to 1970? Hell no. Am I saying that mustangs are typically solid cars that take plenty of abuse? Absolutely.
20th century? Guy, that was 10+ years ago. Perhaps you need to revisit the situation. Ford and General Motors are producing quality products. If you are judging them based on the cars they produced from 1970 and 1980, you might be surprised.
The mustang is probably one of the few american cars that IS more than the numbers. The noise, the feel, the look, etc. They are special cars, especially the more exclusive models like the cobra. Whether this is meaningful to you probably depends most on what you desired as a kid. Rest assured, many young men and women saw 1960s mustangs and said "that is amazing", just like some of us looked at a longhood and went "wow".
Just so we're clear, porsche doesn't produce faultless cars either. Just about every generation of 911 has had some fairly significant defects, from head studs, to tensioners, to valve guides, to IMS failures, etc etc.
Also, "recent history" doesn't mean 1970 and 1980. The mustang has been a solid car since 1994. There was absolutely nothing falling apart on my 10 year old mustang, and I was hardly gentle with it.
No, I didn't own a 27 year old Mustang. I owned a new one in 1983, and it was the V8 GT. Fast, in it's time, and a piece of crap in every other way. I'm sure Mustangs have made great strides since then. How could they not? They sure couldn't get much worse. Compare that to a 1983 Porsche in terms of build quality; I know, not exactly a fair comparison, but that's my point. There IS no comparison. Apples and oranges, as they say.
Hey, Charles Manson killed those people a long, long time ago. But his reputation for being a mad man still applies. Again, I know it's a bad analogy, but one's past is a point of reference for the present and the future sometimes.
Personally, I think the only reason the US auto industry is making better cars is because foreign competition made them. We all saw how US auto companies behaved when they weren't forced to compete. Total crap.
I don't think cars made in the hundreds of thousands or millions qualify as special. Also, it was you who said that Mustangs have always performed well in reliability. I just wanted to disabuse you of that illusion, because they haven't.
Time will tell what kind of car the 2011 Mustang turns out to be. Sure, its a great performance value to some. Here's a 15 year old Ford. I imagine in 2026 most 2011 Mustangs will have the same appeal. Any takers for this fine machine? Didn't think so
Last edited by goofballdeluxe; 12-10-2010 at 03:32 PM.
12-10-2010, 03:31 PM
#78
Race Director
Sorry, I should've been more clear.
No, I didn't own a 27 year old Mustang. I owned a new one in 1983, and it was the V8 GT. Fast, in it's time, and a piece of crap in every other way. I'm sure Mustangs have made great strides since then. How could they not? They sure couldn't get much worse. Compare that to a 1983 Porsche in terms of build quality; I know, not exactly a fair comparison, but that's my point. There IS no comparison. Apples and oranges, as they say.
Hey, Charles Manson killed those people a long, long time ago. But his reputation for being a mad man still applies. Again, I know it's a bad analogy, but one's past is a point of reference for the present and the future sometimes.
Personally, I think the only reason the US auto industry is making better cars is because foreign competition made them. We all saw how US auto companies behaved when they weren't forced to compete. Total crap.
Personally, I don't think cars made in the hundreds of thousands or millions qualify as special. Also, it was you who said that Mustangs have always performed well in reliability. I just wanted to disabuse you of that illusion, because they haven't.
Time will tell what kind of car the 2011 Mustang turns out to be. Sure, its a great performance value to some. Here's a 15 year old Ford. I imagine in 2026 most 2011 Mustangs will have the same appeal. Any takers for this fine machine? Didn't think so
No, I didn't own a 27 year old Mustang. I owned a new one in 1983, and it was the V8 GT. Fast, in it's time, and a piece of crap in every other way. I'm sure Mustangs have made great strides since then. How could they not? They sure couldn't get much worse. Compare that to a 1983 Porsche in terms of build quality; I know, not exactly a fair comparison, but that's my point. There IS no comparison. Apples and oranges, as they say.
Hey, Charles Manson killed those people a long, long time ago. But his reputation for being a mad man still applies. Again, I know it's a bad analogy, but one's past is a point of reference for the present and the future sometimes.
Personally, I think the only reason the US auto industry is making better cars is because foreign competition made them. We all saw how US auto companies behaved when they weren't forced to compete. Total crap.
Personally, I don't think cars made in the hundreds of thousands or millions qualify as special. Also, it was you who said that Mustangs have always performed well in reliability. I just wanted to disabuse you of that illusion, because they haven't.
Time will tell what kind of car the 2011 Mustang turns out to be. Sure, its a great performance value to some. Here's a 15 year old Ford. I imagine in 2026 most 2011 Mustangs will have the same appeal. Any takers for this fine machine? Didn't think so
Your charles manson analogy is a poor one as you acknowledge. Reputation and reality are far different.
I don't care what caused the american car companies to step up their game, but I'm glad they did, because some of the foreign entrants began slipping and hopefully this competition will improve all cars (which quite frankly, are almost all good. Its hard to buy a bad car these days).
I don't view rarity as the sole definition of special. Lets take into account my cobra. There were roughly 8,000 mustang cobras built in 1999. Thats not a big number, but it ain't that small either. But the exhaust note, the body appearance, the better suspension and brakes, etc made it a special experience. While the GT doesn't have a lot of those things, it still has a special appeal with the great V8 sound and torque, and the sporty appearance and interior. They really are fun cars.
Ok, since 1994, the mustang has been reliable. Further, one must consider relative reliability. Compare cars in 1983 to now, and you'll find most weren't reliable.
I would take a 1996 mustang...they are attractive cars.
Finally, although this is also an apples to oranges comparison, we are comparing a 1996 993 to a 2011 mustang GT. Therefore, trying to make the comparison between 96 mustangs and 96 porsches isn't terribly relevant.
12-10-2010, 03:39 PM
#79
Ok, so you owned a new mustang V8 in 1983. It was a pos. What car wasn't a pos then? Almost every car made in the late 70s/early 80s was pretty crappy (cough924cough)
Your charles manson analogy is a poor one as you acknowledge. Reputation and reality are far different.
I don't care what caused the american car companies to step up their game, but I'm glad they did, because some of the foreign entrants began slipping and hopefully this competition will improve all cars (which quite frankly, are almost all good. Its hard to buy a bad car these days).
I don't view rarity as the sole definition of special. Lets take into account my cobra. There were roughly 8,000 mustang cobras built in 1999. Thats not a big number, but it ain't that small either. But the exhaust note, the body appearance, the better suspension and brakes, etc made it a special experience. While the GT doesn't have a lot of those things, it still has a special appeal with the great V8 sound and torque, and the sporty appearance and interior. They really are fun cars.
Ok, since 1994, the mustang has been reliable. Further, one must consider relative reliability. Compare cars in 1983 to now, and you'll find most weren't reliable.
I would take a 1996 mustang...they are attractive cars.
Finally, although this is also an apples to oranges comparison, we are comparing a 1996 993 to a 2011 mustang GT. Therefore, trying to make the comparison between 96 mustangs and 96 porsches isn't terribly relevant.
Your charles manson analogy is a poor one as you acknowledge. Reputation and reality are far different.
I don't care what caused the american car companies to step up their game, but I'm glad they did, because some of the foreign entrants began slipping and hopefully this competition will improve all cars (which quite frankly, are almost all good. Its hard to buy a bad car these days).
I don't view rarity as the sole definition of special. Lets take into account my cobra. There were roughly 8,000 mustang cobras built in 1999. Thats not a big number, but it ain't that small either. But the exhaust note, the body appearance, the better suspension and brakes, etc made it a special experience. While the GT doesn't have a lot of those things, it still has a special appeal with the great V8 sound and torque, and the sporty appearance and interior. They really are fun cars.
Ok, since 1994, the mustang has been reliable. Further, one must consider relative reliability. Compare cars in 1983 to now, and you'll find most weren't reliable.
I would take a 1996 mustang...they are attractive cars.
Finally, although this is also an apples to oranges comparison, we are comparing a 1996 993 to a 2011 mustang GT. Therefore, trying to make the comparison between 96 mustangs and 96 porsches isn't terribly relevant.
Fair or not, Ford's reputation may dog it's current reality. Ford only has itself to blame for this.
I hope US car makers are making better cars now. But the damage that the US auto makers did over the last several decades will ensure that an entire generation of car buyers will never buy one. You can see by this thread that there are many who are prejudiced against them for a reason.
I'd still rather have my 78K mile 15-year old C4S than a brand new 2011 Mustang of any stripe.
12-10-2010, 03:48 PM
#80
Race Director
You make some good points, Quad.
Fair or not, Ford's reputation may dog it's current reality. Ford only has itself to blame for this.
I hope US car makers are making better cars now. But the damage that the US auto makers did over the last several decades will ensure that an entire generation of car buyers will never buy one. You can see by this thread that there are many who are prejudiced against them for a reason.
I'd still rather have my 78K mile 15-year old C4S than a brand new 2011 Mustang of any stripe.
Fair or not, Ford's reputation may dog it's current reality. Ford only has itself to blame for this.
I hope US car makers are making better cars now. But the damage that the US auto makers did over the last several decades will ensure that an entire generation of car buyers will never buy one. You can see by this thread that there are many who are prejudiced against them for a reason.
I'd still rather have my 78K mile 15-year old C4S than a brand new 2011 Mustang of any stripe.
I guess I just have a soft spot for mustangs.
12-10-2010, 03:58 PM
#81
I have a soft spot for neurotic hot actresses who're bobcats in the sack. But I sure wouldn't wanna own one of those, either
12-10-2010, 05:47 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
Not to mention the fact that I don't see any misbehavior in the salesperson mentioned in the OP.
12-10-2010, 06:34 PM
#84
Drifting
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I also read a story here in the Seattle area two years ago about a group of Ford salespeople who took advantage of an older guy. He came in to buy an F150. Paid cash. He apparently let slip that he had about $100k in cash in his house. They delayed him at the dealership and one of the degenerates broke into his home and stole his money. Then to add insult to injury - they somehow finagled the truck (which he had paid cash in full for) back from him (stole it back). This dealership lost its franchise and at least three of these jerks went to jail (which was appropriate).
12-10-2010, 08:25 PM
#86
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dcdude: no I was talking about this one:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...huling30m.html
They actually broke into the man's home and stole his cash then also swindeled him out of the truck he paid cash to them for. Really disgusting degerates. Hope the inmates make them all their b-tches
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...huling30m.html
They actually broke into the man's home and stole his cash then also swindeled him out of the truck he paid cash to them for. Really disgusting degerates. Hope the inmates make them all their b-tches
12-10-2010, 09:28 PM
#89
Three Wheelin'
This thread is great.
That Huling Bros. dealership story was disgusting in so many ways.
Trying to convince anyone that most car salesmen don't fit the stereotypre is an uphill climb.
A guy I work with has a new Shelby GT500. I can certainly see the attraction: 550 hp. and 510 lbs. of torque? Holy smokes - literally
But you'd wake up the next day next to it and remember that it's still a FORD.
That Jersey crack was off the mark - do you realize what Snooki would do to ride in your PORCH? But then, do you realize what you'd then have to do to get her out of it???
That Huling Bros. dealership story was disgusting in so many ways.
Trying to convince anyone that most car salesmen don't fit the stereotypre is an uphill climb.
A guy I work with has a new Shelby GT500. I can certainly see the attraction: 550 hp. and 510 lbs. of torque? Holy smokes - literally
But you'd wake up the next day next to it and remember that it's still a FORD.
That Jersey crack was off the mark - do you realize what Snooki would do to ride in your PORCH? But then, do you realize what you'd then have to do to get her out of it???
12-10-2010, 10:56 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
I drove a Mustang last year. I like muscle. However it's um "front heavy", like the girl above...^
I like a girl that is a little stronger in the rear...something like, say...a 993.
(see the 993 **** below...)
I like a girl that is a little stronger in the rear...something like, say...a 993.
(see the 993 **** below...)