Noob here, looking to gain as much knowledge as possible...
#16
Team Owner
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I think many of your questions will be answered by looking at a 993 in person. There should be a few for sale within a day's drive radius of you there in VA.
I'm new to 993 myself. My wife just got the bug one day and next thing I knew I was arranging a PPI. Now we've got a low miles 95 993 white cab in the garage. I found this place to be enormously helpful in answering my newbie questions then and continues to be to this day.
I have solid experience with Mustangs and now some in the 993. IMO, there isn't a single comparison that's valid. That is, everything from how it feels to get in to the cars to how they handle to their power characteristics are utterly different. It's not like the 993 is a Mustang with more steering feel or with a different torque curve although both are true. They just are not comparable.
One huge difference is how long it takes you to 'get' the car. Put someone in a Mustang whose never been in one and he's off and doing ok, fairly comfortable and feels well oriented to the vehicle. Not so with us and the 993. It took us each over 500 miles of driving to start to really 'get' the car but we're not close to really understanding it yet.
This is truly a driver's car but the car 'needs' the driver to work well. A good counter example is the Corvette. Few Corvette owners are under 60 but the car can perform pretty well even with a corpse driving it which maybe is why it's the senior citizen's choice. A Porsche is capable of more, but it needs you to be as good as it. It will not just run around on its own self correcting as you screw up.
OTOH, when you get it right in a P-car, the satisfaction is enormous and well worth the learning effort.
#17
Team Owner
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Mustang tradition. The Ford folks have managed to engineer things pretty well despite this chunk of solid iron out back. In a way it's like Porsche engineers have done wonders with the newer 911's despite them still having all that mass hung out back.
What is the rationale behind having two oil filters? Seems to me like an example of 'over' engineering in the sense that to get a 1% better outcome, you increase complexity 100%. I see that as a German trait and one I first encountered disassembling a carburetor from a mid 60's Benz.
Also a good deal of how well one can work on autos is how well one can get under them. On bikes, it's the opposite - how high can you get them. Frex my comfort in working on our bikes soared when I got a bike lift. Unfortunately, a car lift is out of the question for us so a good deal of the access to even simple things like getting to the oil filters will be, I suspect, a bit annoying.
Do not agree here. The large oil filter is about 2 mins away, just 5 10mm plastic nuts and three phillips. I feel you should never skip the small one, and since I pull the main oil feed line to the oil pump every time (to make room and to make sure I get out all the oil I can), that might add 5-10 mins. Most of the time on oil changes I do is letting the oil drain out. Even a DIY should be able to do an oil change in 30-60 minutes, depending on the pace. Easy stuff.
Distributor belt change is NOT scheduled anywhere on Porsche's maintenance schedule, and proactively you only need to do it every 60-80K miles. I have done distributors with 120+K miles and the belt was fine.
I would not take any maintenance as a negative since most people would not lay a hand on their cars anyways (us DIY'ers are a dying breed). Those people have to pay for servicing with a Lexus or Honda as well...LOL! Jesse, if you are a gear head, can you handle a wrench? These cars are not that hard to work on.
I suggest you troll around www.pcarworkshop.com to get a feel for the mechanics of the car. Lots of articles, technical service bulletins, etc.
Cheers,
Mike
Distributor belt change is NOT scheduled anywhere on Porsche's maintenance schedule, and proactively you only need to do it every 60-80K miles. I have done distributors with 120+K miles and the belt was fine.
I would not take any maintenance as a negative since most people would not lay a hand on their cars anyways (us DIY'ers are a dying breed). Those people have to pay for servicing with a Lexus or Honda as well...LOL! Jesse, if you are a gear head, can you handle a wrench? These cars are not that hard to work on.
I suggest you troll around www.pcarworkshop.com to get a feel for the mechanics of the car. Lots of articles, technical service bulletins, etc.
Cheers,
Mike
Also a good deal of how well one can work on autos is how well one can get under them. On bikes, it's the opposite - how high can you get them. Frex my comfort in working on our bikes soared when I got a bike lift. Unfortunately, a car lift is out of the question for us so a good deal of the access to even simple things like getting to the oil filters will be, I suspect, a bit annoying.
#18
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Second oil filter is for the oiling circuits for the oil-fed lifters. Its doubtful if the second oil filter would have much debris in it, but I like to get all the old oil out I can.
I used to work on the ground, but now have a full-size two post lift. Makes it MUCH better!
Best of luck.
Cheers,
Mike
I used to work on the ground, but now have a full-size two post lift. Makes it MUCH better!
Best of luck.
Cheers,
Mike
#19
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Again, thanks guys! My daughter is 2 right now and should be around 3-4 at the time of purchase and if my wife has her way (she’s pushing hard) we may have another fresh little one around the same time. Good to know that the seats are useful though.
I am pretty competent with a wrench and have some good buddies that also enjoy a challenging automotive task (we just installed long tubes headers and did a cam swap on my Stang).. I think that if it can be done we'll do it. And with resources like Youtube, this website and Pcarworkshop we should be good to go.
More questions;
PPI - is that something that only a dealer can do or can the local indie guy do it?
Warm up- how long in the morning (summer and winter) does it take for the car to warm up before one should drive it?
Mods- what is the mindset of 993 owners on this? The Mustang Community is constantly doing something to their car to tweak every last HP out of the car to help with ¼ mile times, etc. Rarely do you see a Stang owner that tracks their car. With that being said, what mods should be done to make the 993 “better”. Understanding that this is a driving car with far more depth than the Mustang has.
Mileage- I’ve seen lots of members say these cars are their daily’s, but most examples I see for sale have less than 80k on the clock. If I buy a nice low mile car and do drive it all the time am I screwing up the value of the car?
Safety- How safe are these cars during wrecks? If I am carrying my daughter in the car I am really worried about her safety.
I am pretty competent with a wrench and have some good buddies that also enjoy a challenging automotive task (we just installed long tubes headers and did a cam swap on my Stang).. I think that if it can be done we'll do it. And with resources like Youtube, this website and Pcarworkshop we should be good to go.
More questions;
PPI - is that something that only a dealer can do or can the local indie guy do it?
Warm up- how long in the morning (summer and winter) does it take for the car to warm up before one should drive it?
Mods- what is the mindset of 993 owners on this? The Mustang Community is constantly doing something to their car to tweak every last HP out of the car to help with ¼ mile times, etc. Rarely do you see a Stang owner that tracks their car. With that being said, what mods should be done to make the 993 “better”. Understanding that this is a driving car with far more depth than the Mustang has.
Mileage- I’ve seen lots of members say these cars are their daily’s, but most examples I see for sale have less than 80k on the clock. If I buy a nice low mile car and do drive it all the time am I screwing up the value of the car?
Safety- How safe are these cars during wrecks? If I am carrying my daughter in the car I am really worried about her safety.
#20
Wallflower
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Welcome to the insanity! I started out with an 84 Targa and moved on to a 993 when I stumbled across a perfect on here in Rennlist. Some folks search for a year or more depending on what they want, so don't get discouraged.
I bet there are some rennlisters in your area that you could meet up with to chat, check out their cars, etc. They may not let you drive them, but just spending time chatting about them, going for a ride, etc., will give you some feedback.
On the maintenance, I did most of the easy things myself and while the oil change with 2 filters was more involved than our American cars, it wasn't crazy difficult. Just took a bit more time and frankly, I enjoy that time in the garage...looking the car over, listening to some music and having a few adult beverages.
Good luck! Great forum here to learn.
edit... oh and on the kids... I had my 7 year old son and 4 year old daughter in the back of my 993 all the time. There are a few booster seats that fit well back there (I actually have 2 of them if anyone is interested).
I bet there are some rennlisters in your area that you could meet up with to chat, check out their cars, etc. They may not let you drive them, but just spending time chatting about them, going for a ride, etc., will give you some feedback.
On the maintenance, I did most of the easy things myself and while the oil change with 2 filters was more involved than our American cars, it wasn't crazy difficult. Just took a bit more time and frankly, I enjoy that time in the garage...looking the car over, listening to some music and having a few adult beverages.
Good luck! Great forum here to learn.
edit... oh and on the kids... I had my 7 year old son and 4 year old daughter in the back of my 993 all the time. There are a few booster seats that fit well back there (I actually have 2 of them if anyone is interested).
#21
Rennlist Member
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I would recommend finding an ideal color combo and type (for me it HAD to be the 4S) and just search for that one car. It makes it a lot easier!!! I used cars.com and autotrader almost exclusively (next to Rennlist of course). MANY more cars on the general websites though than Rennlist.
I like the 4S as I live in the Northeast and when it rains hard, the roads are really slick and I like the mental knowledge of having that AWD potentially saving me in a bad situation like slipping on the road.
Also, the 4S logo ROCKS!!!![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/stever500/IMG_0180.jpg)
If you type in the topic you're interested in, like "colors" on the 993 "search" forum, you'll find many threads on different colored cars to choose from, visually. For me, it had to be silver/black, nothing else would do.
I never wanted a car with a rear spoiler so that narrowed it down more too.
I read back pages and pages of threads and learned as much as I could.
Good luck. When the right car comes up, even if you're not totally ready to get it, you might want to consider pouncing on it anyway, finances be damned! Be irresponsible like me. It's awesome
I like the 4S as I live in the Northeast and when it rains hard, the roads are really slick and I like the mental knowledge of having that AWD potentially saving me in a bad situation like slipping on the road.
Also, the 4S logo ROCKS!!!
![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/stever500/IMG_0180.jpg)
If you type in the topic you're interested in, like "colors" on the 993 "search" forum, you'll find many threads on different colored cars to choose from, visually. For me, it had to be silver/black, nothing else would do.
I never wanted a car with a rear spoiler so that narrowed it down more too.
I read back pages and pages of threads and learned as much as I could.
Good luck. When the right car comes up, even if you're not totally ready to get it, you might want to consider pouncing on it anyway, finances be damned! Be irresponsible like me. It's awesome
![thumbup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/thumbup.gif)
#22
Team Owner
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Second oil filter is for the oiling circuits for the oil-fed lifters. Its doubtful if the second oil filter would have much debris in it, but I like to get all the old oil out I can.
I used to work on the ground, but now have a full-size two post lift. Makes it MUCH better!
Best of luck.
Cheers,
Mike
I used to work on the ground, but now have a full-size two post lift. Makes it MUCH better!
Best of luck.
Cheers,
Mike
#23
Drifting
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Be patient and exhaust every possibility. I came across mine on eBay and wasn't too sure I wanted to venture into that arena. But, finding it was for sale at a legitimate BMW dealership and after many, many phone calls and emailed pictures, I flew out to buy it. The salesman was extremely honest to the point that the vehicle was better in person than what was described. The purchase process was delightful. I cannot say that about many of my daily drivers.
#24
Team Owner
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Mods- what is the mindset of 993 owners on this? The Mustang Community is constantly doing something to their car to tweak every last HP out of the car to help with ¼ mile times, etc. Rarely do you see a Stang owner that tracks their car. With that being said, what mods should be done to make the 993 “better”. Understanding that this is a driving car with far more depth than the Mustang has.
Top down, winding road through high desert grasslands traversed a good speed kept strong on the corners....great feel for the road....great sounds that's what we use this car for. Not for blistering fast runs down Central at midnight.
I'd guess there are gov't stats. I haven't a clue.
#25
Rennlist Member
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Porsche 993 The essential Companion
The Ultimate Buyer's Guide
And if you never end up with one, you can always sell them.
Its fun dreaming, isn't it. I did for 42 years.
#26
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Hi Jesse,
I'm pretty new here and am in a similar situation to you in that I hope to be looking seriously at a car in the upcoming months. I have spent a lot of time on Rennlist looking at the 993 forums over that past few months. I was wondering about the insurance rates/safety a bit as well. A few weeks ago I found this from another 993 Rennlister:
The full forum discussion can be found here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...93-safety.html
Hope this helps.
Thanks for all the work you and others in the service do for our country!
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Eric
I'm pretty new here and am in a similar situation to you in that I hope to be looking seriously at a car in the upcoming months. I have spent a lot of time on Rennlist looking at the 993 forums over that past few months. I was wondering about the insurance rates/safety a bit as well. A few weeks ago I found this from another 993 Rennlister:
Anir,
I just read your post on an older thread ("Only for those with strong stomachs") regarding crash safety of 911s. I looked through the Highway Loss Data Institute site (www.hwysafety.org) and found the injury loss data for "1995-1997 Porsche 911," which obviously is the 993. As you know, this info is based on insurance company records regarding injury claims. The average for all cars is 100. The lower the number, the better the car's safety record. Since these figures are based on actual crashes, my understanding is that they are regarded as relatively credible. The 993 has a stunningly good record -- the rating is a 39. To put this in perspective, the list is very comprehensive (251 cars listed), and the ONLY vehicles ('95-'97 models) listed with a better (lower) rating are:
(Porsche 993: 39)
GMC 2500 4X4 Pickup: 33
Range Rover: 36
GMC Yukon 4X4 36
Buick Park Avenue 4-Door: 38
Other cars:
Mercedes-Benz S-Class: 42
Lincoln Town Car: 58
Dodge Neon: 134
Honda Civic: 127
Mercedes-Benz SL: 46
BMW Z3: 65
Mazda Miata: 90
While I hope none of us ever has to test it, this strongly suggests that the cockpit of a 993 is a good place to be, even if the worst happens.
I just read your post on an older thread ("Only for those with strong stomachs") regarding crash safety of 911s. I looked through the Highway Loss Data Institute site (www.hwysafety.org) and found the injury loss data for "1995-1997 Porsche 911," which obviously is the 993. As you know, this info is based on insurance company records regarding injury claims. The average for all cars is 100. The lower the number, the better the car's safety record. Since these figures are based on actual crashes, my understanding is that they are regarded as relatively credible. The 993 has a stunningly good record -- the rating is a 39. To put this in perspective, the list is very comprehensive (251 cars listed), and the ONLY vehicles ('95-'97 models) listed with a better (lower) rating are:
(Porsche 993: 39)
GMC 2500 4X4 Pickup: 33
Range Rover: 36
GMC Yukon 4X4 36
Buick Park Avenue 4-Door: 38
Other cars:
Mercedes-Benz S-Class: 42
Lincoln Town Car: 58
Dodge Neon: 134
Honda Civic: 127
Mercedes-Benz SL: 46
BMW Z3: 65
Mazda Miata: 90
While I hope none of us ever has to test it, this strongly suggests that the cockpit of a 993 is a good place to be, even if the worst happens.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...93-safety.html
Hope this helps.
Thanks for all the work you and others in the service do for our country!
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
Eric
#27
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Welcome!
I found the Acronym List I started a while back:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...rworkshop.html
I will look around and add to it if I find anything new!
I found the Acronym List I started a while back:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...rworkshop.html
I will look around and add to it if I find anything new!
#28
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Welcome!
I found the Acronym List I started a while back:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...rworkshop.html
I will look around and add to it if I find anything new!
I found the Acronym List I started a while back:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...rworkshop.html
I will look around and add to it if I find anything new!
A W E S O M E!
#30
Rennlist Member
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Interesting, I bought a Mustang when my first Porsche was totalled, still have it and now have a 993 to enjoy as well. Here's kind of the process I followed. Read, read, read. Join the Rennlist community and look for any local Porsche get togethers to talk to owners. Start an information file and save info that peaks your interest. I started with general information on what to watch for in a higher mileage Porsche. I read The Used 911 Story to get a feel for the characteristics of the different model years before deciding on the 993. Decide your top 3 or 4 color preferences and the options you have seen and like. Options/mods already on the car add a a fraction to the cost compared to adding them later. Drive different cars , no two are alike. If you are considering the retail route, check for past experiences on this board - some less than stellar characters out there. Don't hurry. I lost out on 3 cars then found one on my top 4 list when I checked Craigs List as an after thought before heading to a small town out of state for a golf weekend. Make the best deal you can then get a PPI. Someone on this board will know a good shop close to the car. Chalk it up to good luck if you find something major and decide to walk away or use it to make a reasonable final offer. Owners don't always know that this and that needs attention and will probably be willing to work with you. Oh, and everthing everybody else said. Good luck and let us know how it goes.