xcusemi

Hello guys:

Anyone has any experience with SMG 2002 M3? Can you give me the comparison between our 993 with M3?

jdistefa

Have spent a fair amount of time with both the 6-speed stick and SMG versions. In short, totally different animal. Do a general search, fair amount of discussion on the E46 M3 here.

NC TRACKRAT

Yep, I can. I owned an '02 e46 M3 with SMG in '02-'03. At first, it was a love affair. I felt like Michael Schumacher in a paddle-shift F1 Ferrari. IMHO, it's the best looking modern day BMW but so "insulated, that it really becomes somewhat dull and rather "ho-hum". Then came the engines grenading...Not mine but quite a few others. TWO sets of connecting rod bearings were replaced under warranty. There were problems reported with coil packs, SMG pumps, etc. Then some rear sub-frame failures. My wife and I hesitated to take any long trips in the car for fear we would be stranded in "East Awfulgosh" for a few weeks. I decided to "bail" before the car started to depreciate like a stone. Smart move on my part.
That's when I decided to come back to my first love after an absence of some 30+ years...Porsche. After serving as an instructor for PCA DE's for a couple of years, I started asking around and everyone agreed that the 993 was the watershed, the halcyon model. It took me 2 years to find the '95 but the search was worth it. When I slid behind the wheel, it was though I had never left.
The 993 is not as brutally quick as the M3 but it gives better sensory feed-back. Visibility is better. The M3 above 5k sounds fantastic but the sound of the 993 behind your head is euphoric from the moment the key is turned. In the handling dept., the M3 will make you think you're invinceable until you get in so far over your head, you may not have the skill sets to save it. The 993, if properly set up, will handle extremely well but you will work for it and respect it, especially at the limit.
If you like to work on your own car, the 993 will be more fun. The M3 will drive you crazy and you'll be dealer-dependent. The M3 will continue to depreciate, the 993 will do the opposite. Hope the above ramblings help. As you can imagine, I'm biased to the 993.

Cactus

Neighbor had one and it looked great and drove even better. It only had 60K on it when he got rid of it and there were some high dollar repairs already. VANOS, alternator, wheel bearings, etc. Way too early for such issues.

Wilder

What do you want it for? I've been toying with the idea of buying an e36 M3 for track. Cheap, reliable and well-balanced weapon.

Stuttgart951

Both of mine were 6-speed manuals; but regardless, its an apples and oranges comparison. Both are awesome cars in their own right but they fill different niches.

The 993 is the more thrilling drive, has a much higher learning curve and has more "personality."

The S54 (E46 M3 motor) is, in my opinion, the best six cylinder engine BMW ever produced. Drivers being equal on most tracks and assuming the M3 has had a brake upgrade done (OEM is far from track ready), the M3 should be faster in every category except braking; simply due to weight.

That said, the M3 is still "just a car" whereas the 993 is - to me, at least - somehow more than that. You understand...

The most significant difference between the two is under the skin. The M3 masks bad driving habits and all of the on-board electronic wizardry fixes all but the most hideous of mistakes - its an easy car to drive quickly.

By contrast, the 993 not only fails to make up for driver error, but sees fit to amplify that error. Its more satisfying to drive quickly for me because its more difficult to get the most out of it.

Daily driver = M3 by far.

Track/weekend toy = 993.

You really cant go wrong either way, though. Both are at the top of their respective totem poles.

Edit: As for the grenading engines; BMW handled their problem far better than Porsche did. While Porsche masks the statistics of M96 failures, BMW simply slapped a 100,000 mile, no-questions-asked warranty on the power-plant. I would say that the issue is over-blown. It is likely that fewer S54's have popped than have CEL's come on due to SAI clogs. When looking at E46 weaknesses, I would concern myself more with the rear sub-frame than the engine. The mounting points tear with relative ease.

xcusemi

Thank you for all the response. I am looking for a daily drive for M3 since I aleady have the 993 for the weekend. I do not track my car.

Since I dont track my car, would i still need to concern on the rear subframe issue?

I am consider 2002 with SMG transmission. This way, my wife can also enjoy the car since she doesnt drive manual and still able to comfortably carry 2 of our young children.


Thanks

csertich

"I would concern myself more with the rear sub-frame than the engine. The mounting points tear with relative ease."
E36 M3's had this same issue. They changed the body design but didn't fix this? Pretty disappointing.
chuck

993Brendan

I currently have a 993 as well as an E46 M3 for daily driving. I've owned the M3 for a little over a year.

To answer your original question, I was under the impression when shopping that the SMG was problematic and best avoided. Lots of talk about pumps going out, expensive repairs, etc., so I decided on the 6MT.

As for some general thoughts about the car, it makes a great daily driver. Other than changing the oil, I didn't have to do a thing to the car for the first year I owned it (its a 2002 with 41k on the clock when I bought it). At the one year mark it was time to replace some disposibles (pads all around, front rotors, rear tires) as well as a leaky power steering hose. Currently, I'm having some issues with a throttle position sensor, but I think its a relatively cheap fix and seems to come and go. The car has never left me stranded- just typically BMW things here and there.

Overall I'm really happy with the car. I echo the earlier remarks that the car is more of a detached driving experience than the 993 and if it ever came down to one or the other I'd pick the 993 hands down. The M3 gets alot of attention (its Phoenix Yellow), but the 993 is the true classic between the two.

993Brendan

...oh yes, and as to the rear subframe issue, there was a recent class action lawsuit settlement whereby BMWNA agreed that any E46 owner can bring their car to a dealer to have it inspected and repaired if necessary. Obviously mods would void this, so be careful what you buy. There is plenty of information on the problem and BMWNA's proposed solution on m3forum.com.

Glad I saw this post- I need to schedule a time to get my E46s inspected!

Stuttgart951

Yes.

I agree. My second car tore before it saw a single day of track time. Took it in for a corner balance and the shop found the mount in the opening stages of separation.

It's just a ****-poor design and seemingly so simple to fix - speaking of which, most indy BMW shops will re-weld and reinforce the area to better-than-OEM spec for around $1,300-1,500 parts and labor.

OP - I dont see your location, but if you are near the Washington DC area, RRT out in Dulles does fantastic BMW work and are intimately familiar with fixing both front and rear SF tears.

fast_freddy

I have a brother in law who has one but every time he drives my car he pines for one. The first time he drove mine he got out and remarked that "THIS" is what he was looking for. I always ask him why he doesnt get rid of it and get a P-Car and he sighs then comments because I only drive it to the train station and back and it would be a shame to waste a Porsche like that.

xcusemi

Again, thank you for your imput. Thank you!

Thatcher

i had an e46 m3 as a daily for the last year.. great car for every day driving. i would recommend finding a high miles 6 speed for around 15k. i just found one for a good friend of mine for 13k. my next daily is a z4 M coupe.

CorrdoBrit

Owned a 2005 M3 ZCP with SMG transmission. Drove the car for a year before selling it and getting a 993. The SMG maybe the perfect system for the track but I found it annoying and a pain to use especially in the lower gears and making turns. Turning from a standstill meant the levers were in the wrong place going from 1st to 2nd. I ended up teaching myself to use the shift **** for gear changing.
The car felt too big for me and I never really gelled with it. Getting into the 993 on the other hand feels like I'm pulling on a well worn pair of gloves.
The stock muffler sound was a real disappointment too. Way too raspy, but easily remedied with some pipe mods.