I'm in the process of purchasing a 993 C2S. The car currently has H&R Springs and Bilstein HDs. I do HPDEs (6-8 per year) and am a no-fuss person when it comes to suspension. I don't want thousands of adjustable pieces; I simply want something that will work. I plan to run Star Specs, at least for this coming season as I learn the new car, and may move to NT01s or R888s but don't see myself progressing beyond that as it is a car I drive to and from the track.

So I'm thinking of definitely sticking with the HDs as Bilstein builds a quality damper and am fine without adjustability in terms of compression and rebound, at least at this point while I learn the car.

So I have three questions:

1. Will I require drop links? I understand the rear HDs do come with a shortened link but I'm not sure if those are what I would want for my application. If I do need them, Tarrett seems to be the accepted maker, correct?

2. Are the H&R springs more appearance than function and should I be looking to the M030 or other options? As the car sits, I'm not comfortable with the lack of suspension travel and would plan on bringing the ride height up a bit. I also don't particularly care for progressive springs.

3. Sway bars - Is there any deficiency with the OEM units? I understand that size is often personal preference and I see RS, Turbo, and TRG are preferred here but I also see Whiteline among others and I'm wondering if they're a worthwhile investment and if I would want both front and rear or just rear.

Obviously, cost is somewhat of an issue and the hardware on the car is all reasonably new so to pull it off unless necessary seems like a waste to me.

I appreciate the input of everyone, especially those who have tracked similar setups.

Thanks!

 

Hi Ian,

Perhaps I can help,.....

While I might not agree with your assessment of needing a suspension with "thousands of adjustable pieces",....I'd offer that if you are intending to use a DOT race tire, the H&R/Bilstein package is too soft for track days. A PSS-10 package may be a better choice, based on your input, above.

On to your questions:

1) The need for different drop links (rear) depends on ride height. When the car is, or near RS right height, the rear swaybar must be repositioned under the lower toe links and that requires the curvedd RS ones. Stay above this range and the OEM or Bilstein ones are is fine.

2) H&R springs are excellent quality & well designed for what they are intended for: lowering the car for fast street & touring. These are progressive to maintain a decent ride quality as linear-rate ones can be somewhat stiff, if not used as an engineered system using tender springs.

3) OEM bars are OK: there are options for adjustable ones that permit you to fine-tune the balance of the car to your skills and preferences. TRG ones are FAR too stiff for your application and I'd suggest either Euro Turbo (non-adjustable) or the RS adjustable ones (very spendy but worth every dime).

JMHO, so YMMV,

 

The JIC setup would also be a good solution. There happens to be a set for sale in the for sale section

Hi Steve, any update and the canister holders and RS front links?

 

Steve,

Thank you for your input. Are there any springs that would work with my application as to avoid having to ditch the Bilstein HDs altogether? Also, is there a ride height that's going to perform optimally for me with the PSS10s or Bilsteins? I don't want to order drop links for the sake of ordering them but if there is a discernable performance or reliability advantage, I'd do it.

I'm leaning towards the RS bars regardless but I'm curious about the rest of the suspension as well. Thanks again for all of your input.

 

I guess my question is: Is there any harm in sticking with what I have, save for a corner balancing/alignment, drop links, RS bars, if I'm running Star Specs (street compound) for this season?

I could always upgrade to PSS10s in the future.

 

And will the Tarret adjustable drop links work/fit the RS sway bars?

 

I'm running the H & R springs with HD's (see my signature) and due to the RS ride height I had to use RS drop links but kept the stock sway bars.

I had Jae Lee at Mirage Intl do a corner balance and zero tolerance alignment for a combination street/track set up (2 1/2 degrees negative camber all the way around) and it works to my satisfaction and beyond.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.........................ZP44

 

Considering your credentials, this is the exact endorsement I was looking for. Thanks for your reply.

 

Ian,
The one thing I forgot to mention is you cannot get 2 1/2 deg neg camber with the stock rear upper mounts, hence my decision to install ERP billet uppers so I can go past 1 3/4 neg deg maximum factory for a combo set up at 2 1/2 neg deg or go to over 3 deg neg if I want a full track set up.

The other benefit is it really ties the top of the rear suspension to the chassis much better than the stock set up.

Joel

 

Joel,

Thanks! I'll look into them. Where did you buy them from?

Also, I see your spring rates in your signature. Are they custom? Linear rate, I'm assuming?

Considering the car I'm picking up is at 108,000 miles, other than the checking the tie rods, ball joints, and wheel bearings (all of which appear to be in good shape), are there any other critical bushings or suspension components I may be overlooking in terms of reinforcement or replacement?

 

Just go drive the car. See how it works for you. If it rolls to much, you probably need sway bars. I agree with Steve Weiner:
1. Go M030 RoW, 22mm front, 993 TT M030 RoW rear 21 mm (pretty cheap)
2. 993 RS bars, 23mm front, 20mm rear, adjustable, 5 way front, 3 way rear.

I have the TRG 25mm front and 22mm rear, the front is too bloody stiff...I can only run it at full soft.

There are lots of track guys running Bilstein HD and H&R. It may not be the super trick set up, but it works.

With all the money you have saved consider doing this:
1. Get a G2X or Traqmate
2. Get some good tires
3. Hire a coach

 

Ian,
My springs are the H & R Red Race springs not progressive's and are not custom. The only thing really custom is my HD's that were tweaked by TRG in Nor Cal for the original owner of the shocks (they came off a full race 993) and then re-valved to my car & spring weights by Bilstein's Custom Shop.

I got ther upper billet mounts from Mirage International here in San Diego and had them do the install, corner balance & alignment.

The first acid test I threw at the new suspension was the Porsche Parade 2007 National AX with a fresh set of Khumo VictoRacers mounted on 17's.
It worked very well and when I ran the 20th fastest time of day out of over 400 cars and actually beat the GT-3 class winner by .09sec, who ran the 21st fastest time of day, I knew I had nailed the set up on this car.

I have never been a fan of the adjustable systems like PSS9 & 10's and have always preferred a stiff suspension and exceptional handling over a comfortable ride.

And as long as everything else looks good, why fix what isn't broken?

Best of luck.................Joel

 

Great input. The springs on the car I'm picking up are the regular progressive sport springs. I think I'll run them for a season while I learn but may look to your setup next season after I grow comfortable with the car. I figure on street tires, the slightly less aggressive spring rates will cope fine.

Quite frankly, I'm intimidated a bit by the car. Coming from an Evo X where the active yaw control sorts the rear end for you and allows you to dial in oversteer with a touch of lift-throttle, I'm probably not going to be anywhere near at the level of speed I'm used to where I should be changing much of anything for my first 3-4 events. I just want to progressively push the car as-is and perhaps I'll get a little more in tune with what I want out of the car and then I'll start to make some serious changes.

Thanks again, Joel.

 

Your decision to get familiar with your car first is sound, you will know when you have found the limits of that suspension and will also know what you want to achieve as an end result with the changes.

My car is set up nervous & loose so I have to be very smooth with my steering inputs but it responds so damn well to the throttle, it just ends up being fast compared to the normal Porsche understeer type of set up.

I now know I have been lucky enough to actually find what some say is impossible, the happy medium between track and street set ups.

Cheers..............Joel

 

Zombie,

What did it cost to have the HDs revalved to RS specs??

Jeff