Finally, an alternative to Bilstein HDs!
#121
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thanks! I've had HDs with H&R springs on my previous cab and they seemed OK for the street, although I'm not sure that those springs complemented HD's valving all that well.
#122
Rennlist Member
I am obviously not Garth but based on my experience in a coupé, I wouldn't recommend M030 springs with HD shocks in a convertible. For a cab with very occasional autocross on street tires I'd go with M033 springs. Based on what I've read, I'd try the Koni FSDs with those.
#123
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Garth, thanks for the PM, really appreciate it!
It's alone my thinking as well, but we'll see how it goes. A Rennlister offeerd me the above mentioned RS Bilsteins. Does anyone has any opinions on their stiffness?
It's alone my thinking as well, but we'll see how it goes. A Rennlister offeerd me the above mentioned RS Bilsteins. Does anyone has any opinions on their stiffness?
#124
Instructor
Finally installed, and very pleased with results
I realise that choosing the Koni FSD shocks is a bit of a gamble, since there's not a lot of history about them. But after a talk with Steve Weiner, I decided that I am really a 90% street driver, and I wanted shocks that would provide the best street experience. The Bilsteins are an option. but I read just too many posts that complained about their harshness.
I bought the Koni's from Paragon back in March when they were on sale. I finally decided that the springs that were original to the ROW 993s would be a good fit. These are the M029. I didn't want anything too stiff, nor too low. I couldn't find the spring rate for them, but they are 20 mm lower than the US cars.
Finally got both installed two weeks ago at Tru-Line in Bellevue, WA: they have the very expensive alignment machine. 4 hours for installation, and 1 hour each for alignment and corner balancing.
The results have been way beyond my expectations. I realize that my old shocks were probably wasted, so I don't have a solid baseline but the car stays much flatter in corners, and I search out bumpy roads to enjoy the compliant ride. I am just super happy with the result. The installer take the car out for a test drive, and his comment was that it was really smooth.
From my experince, the Koni FSD have been an excellent upgrade. They have an owner's lifetime warrently also.
Gary
I bought the Koni's from Paragon back in March when they were on sale. I finally decided that the springs that were original to the ROW 993s would be a good fit. These are the M029. I didn't want anything too stiff, nor too low. I couldn't find the spring rate for them, but they are 20 mm lower than the US cars.
Finally got both installed two weeks ago at Tru-Line in Bellevue, WA: they have the very expensive alignment machine. 4 hours for installation, and 1 hour each for alignment and corner balancing.
The results have been way beyond my expectations. I realize that my old shocks were probably wasted, so I don't have a solid baseline but the car stays much flatter in corners, and I search out bumpy roads to enjoy the compliant ride. I am just super happy with the result. The installer take the car out for a test drive, and his comment was that it was really smooth.
From my experince, the Koni FSD have been an excellent upgrade. They have an owner's lifetime warrently also.
Gary
#126
Instructor
Do you have a side photo showing car height after installation?
Dan: until I get a picture posted, here's the info from the alignment sheet:
Previous LF 26 1/2 RF 26 3/4
LR 26 RR 26 1/4
Final LF 26 RF 26
LR 26 RR 26
I was suprised that the drop was not more, as the M029 option springs are supposed to be 20mm lower that the US. The M030 and M033 should be a little lower, about another 10mm. i didn't talk to the alignment shop to see how they set the height. I think Jason at Paragon posted that the M030 and M033 springs were about as low as one should go with the Koni FSD shocks.
I don't know if any of that helps.
Gary
Dan: until I get a picture posted, here's the info from the alignment sheet:
Previous LF 26 1/2 RF 26 3/4
LR 26 RR 26 1/4
Final LF 26 RF 26
LR 26 RR 26
I was suprised that the drop was not more, as the M029 option springs are supposed to be 20mm lower that the US. The M030 and M033 should be a little lower, about another 10mm. i didn't talk to the alignment shop to see how they set the height. I think Jason at Paragon posted that the M030 and M033 springs were about as low as one should go with the Koni FSD shocks.
I don't know if any of that helps.
Gary
#128
Instructor
Dan: until I get a picture posted, here's the info from the alignment sheet:
Previous LF 26 1/2 RF 26 3/4
LR 26 RR 26 1/4
Final LF 26 RF 26
LR 26 RR 26
I was suprised that the drop was not more, as the M029 option springs are supposed to be 20mm lower that the US. The M030 and M033 should be a little lower, about another 10mm. i didn't talk to the alignment shop to see how they set the height. I think Jason at Paragon posted that the M030 and M033 springs were about as low as one should go with the Koni FSD shocks.
GaryB - Thank you for the info.
Previous LF 26 1/2 RF 26 3/4
LR 26 RR 26 1/4
Final LF 26 RF 26
LR 26 RR 26
I was suprised that the drop was not more, as the M029 option springs are supposed to be 20mm lower that the US. The M030 and M033 should be a little lower, about another 10mm. i didn't talk to the alignment shop to see how they set the height. I think Jason at Paragon posted that the M030 and M033 springs were about as low as one should go with the Koni FSD shocks.
GaryB - Thank you for the info.
#129
Three Wheelin'
I ordered the Koni Sport (Yellow) dampers from Jason at Paragon last night. Both Jason and Lee at Koni were nice enough to answer all my questions. I told Lee I would post his reply to me regarding the Sport shocks so that it might clear up any misconceptions about their intended application for the 993:
I hope this is useful to some of you.
Originally Posted by Lee from Koni
Since the KONI Sports for your car are externally adjustable for rebound damping all the way around, they are easily compatible with about any sane, streetable or light track duty springs. Typically the higher the rates are, the more rebound damping is needed to control the motion. Since the KONI’s adjustment range is 100% (twice as firm at max setting as it is at min setting), then you have a huge range to work within. We develop our shocks to be installed at the full soft setting to give the performance handling and ride quality that our engineers feels is the best balance with stock springs as a baseline, then you have the complete adjustment range up from there to work from. I know that the dampers were originally developed by KONI in Holland but I do not know if there was a specific package on the car beyond stock.
So long as you select a spring that comes from a company with a good reputation for quality in design, engineering, and manufacturing (Porsche, Eibach, H&R, etc.) then you will be just fine matching up the KONI Sports with them. A non-adjustable damper has a much, much more narrow window of spring compatibility because you can’t tune it to your preferences for damping, ride quality, handling and dynamic balance. We have strong relationships with most of the leading spring companies and I would not have any qualms putting KONI Sports with them so long as they meet your own preference for the amount of lowering and firmness that you are looking for.
If the car is going to be primarily street driven, I do tend to lean toward a more conservative spring rate and lowering since you need to be happy living with it on the street and it will be fine for light track use. A more aggressive track set-up may be great on a very smooth track in controlled circumstances but may be too harsh or too low for day-in day-out street use. I have never owned a Porsche myself (yet!) but I’d think that any of Porsche’s own OEM suspension packages like M030 will probably rank strongly on the slightly conservative but solid engineering and performance range so I doubt that you will go wrong there again if the lowering fits your goals.
Jason at Paragon Products is very knowledgable and helpful on Porsche stuff. He has been my go-to guy for all things Porsche for all of my 15 years at KONI. In fact, KONI gave him an award several years ago for his highly regarded knowledge and customer service. I trust his input and also have bent his ear a few times when I have begun to wonder about picking up a 993 or 996 myself. I send a lot of Porsche people to him even if it is not related to suspension.
I hope this answers your questions. The answer is “any well engineered, good quality, sane spring system within your target ride height range” should be just fine with the KONI Sports since you can tune the dampers to meet your preferences.
So long as you select a spring that comes from a company with a good reputation for quality in design, engineering, and manufacturing (Porsche, Eibach, H&R, etc.) then you will be just fine matching up the KONI Sports with them. A non-adjustable damper has a much, much more narrow window of spring compatibility because you can’t tune it to your preferences for damping, ride quality, handling and dynamic balance. We have strong relationships with most of the leading spring companies and I would not have any qualms putting KONI Sports with them so long as they meet your own preference for the amount of lowering and firmness that you are looking for.
If the car is going to be primarily street driven, I do tend to lean toward a more conservative spring rate and lowering since you need to be happy living with it on the street and it will be fine for light track use. A more aggressive track set-up may be great on a very smooth track in controlled circumstances but may be too harsh or too low for day-in day-out street use. I have never owned a Porsche myself (yet!) but I’d think that any of Porsche’s own OEM suspension packages like M030 will probably rank strongly on the slightly conservative but solid engineering and performance range so I doubt that you will go wrong there again if the lowering fits your goals.
Jason at Paragon Products is very knowledgable and helpful on Porsche stuff. He has been my go-to guy for all things Porsche for all of my 15 years at KONI. In fact, KONI gave him an award several years ago for his highly regarded knowledge and customer service. I trust his input and also have bent his ear a few times when I have begun to wonder about picking up a 993 or 996 myself. I send a lot of Porsche people to him even if it is not related to suspension.
I hope this answers your questions. The answer is “any well engineered, good quality, sane spring system within your target ride height range” should be just fine with the KONI Sports since you can tune the dampers to meet your preferences.
#130
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Ian, thank you for posting this.
A good reply from Lee. Similar to what i talk to my customers about (not Porsche related). Straight common sense, take time to actually write things out, be fair and don't toot your own horn. This is my experience with Koni as a company, generally. Good product, unassuming nice people, good customer service. My only hesitation is longevity of their shocks and their loss of ajustment after several years of autocrossing. But, honestly, they are the leading consideration for my current 993.
A good reply from Lee. Similar to what i talk to my customers about (not Porsche related). Straight common sense, take time to actually write things out, be fair and don't toot your own horn. This is my experience with Koni as a company, generally. Good product, unassuming nice people, good customer service. My only hesitation is longevity of their shocks and their loss of ajustment after several years of autocrossing. But, honestly, they are the leading consideration for my current 993.