How much of the 993 is Hand Built ?
01-05-2010, 02:05 PM
#16
Noodle Jr.
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I was lucky enough to go on a factory tour in Stuttgart in '94. The 993's were lined up being "put together by hand" -- meaning that at one spot, the guys fitted the proper calipers to wheel carriers, put the struts on and stuck it to the frame.
We didn't see any engine assembly, but I remember that they were built by a single mechanic, then dynoed and if they didn't meet spec, they were torn down and rebuilt. If they failed again, the were given to one of the senior mechanics and he would see wtf was wrong. hehe.
My wife took detailed notes (she is just that sort of person with a travel diary for each holiday). I'll see if I can dig up her notes and post them. I remember our tour guide said "Are you planning to open your own car factory in America?" on how she kept writing everything down...
My favorite memory was of one employee taking a swig of beer after doing some part of his job.
-reiner
We didn't see any engine assembly, but I remember that they were built by a single mechanic, then dynoed and if they didn't meet spec, they were torn down and rebuilt. If they failed again, the were given to one of the senior mechanics and he would see wtf was wrong. hehe.
My wife took detailed notes (she is just that sort of person with a travel diary for each holiday). I'll see if I can dig up her notes and post them. I remember our tour guide said "Are you planning to open your own car factory in America?" on how she kept writing everything down...
My favorite memory was of one employee taking a swig of beer after doing some part of his job.
-reiner
01-05-2010, 03:05 PM
#17
Drifting
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+1. I'm coming to realize, "what's the real benefit of handbuilt?" Maybe at some point the slow pace helped justify the high price? Is it just status?
I also expect that it takes longer production runs than Porsche had in the old days to justify the high cost of precise, robotic assembly tooling.
Does anyone believe that with today's tools hand built is acutally better product? Why?
I also expect that it takes longer production runs than Porsche had in the old days to justify the high cost of precise, robotic assembly tooling.
Does anyone believe that with today's tools hand built is acutally better product? Why?
01-05-2010, 03:47 PM
#18
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If you want to see how Porsche built the cars by hand, download the "Porsche Factory 1960" clip here: http://public.me.com/ilko
Brian
01-05-2010, 04:11 PM
#19
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Rather than hand built or machine built, I think the question is was the car designed to be hand built or machine built.... I’m no industrial engineer, but there are just some things that cannot be done by machine (body panels that will not stack efficiently, location of components, etc). In order to build by machine, some compromises have to be made to the to the ideal design. That being said, I imagine there is much less compromise today as there was in 1994...
Not to mention the volume of sales required to offset the tooling costs of doing by machine…
Not to mention the volume of sales required to offset the tooling costs of doing by machine…
01-05-2010, 04:42 PM
#20
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Hand built may be good or may be bad. Once manufacturers started adopting the methods of W. Edward Demming (he is the American who taught the Japanese about "quality control" and put the Japanese on the auto map to stay), the movement towards "zero defects" or 6 Sigma (6 standard deviations from the mean - an almost unattainable standard for manufacturing).
In general, the more you make of something, in theory the better you get at making it (and the less it costs you to make it).
Frankly, if I was asked to choose between a mass manufactured Chevy small block V8 or a hand built Ferrari engine, and asked to make a bet on which one would get to 100,000 miles without major repair, I'd choose the Chevy every time.
The current 997 Porsches were designed for automated manufacturing. Even the engine design was done to allow modern manufacturing methods. But as we all have read in the other forums, Porsche really screwed up the early design of the 996 engines. They had significant rear main seal problems and also intermediate shaft (spectacular) failures. This was not caused by poor automated manufacturing processes, but rather by a design that would not allow the manufacturing process to hold either the read main seal and/or intermediate shaft in proper support. (I've read they are still having problems with the rear main seal - even on the 4th or 5th re-design).
And on our 993's, we've all read or experienced personally the poor material standard of the valve guides. That, again, was a design flaw.
In general, I would opt for automated manufacturing processes over hand built.
In general, the more you make of something, in theory the better you get at making it (and the less it costs you to make it).
Frankly, if I was asked to choose between a mass manufactured Chevy small block V8 or a hand built Ferrari engine, and asked to make a bet on which one would get to 100,000 miles without major repair, I'd choose the Chevy every time.
The current 997 Porsches were designed for automated manufacturing. Even the engine design was done to allow modern manufacturing methods. But as we all have read in the other forums, Porsche really screwed up the early design of the 996 engines. They had significant rear main seal problems and also intermediate shaft (spectacular) failures. This was not caused by poor automated manufacturing processes, but rather by a design that would not allow the manufacturing process to hold either the read main seal and/or intermediate shaft in proper support. (I've read they are still having problems with the rear main seal - even on the 4th or 5th re-design).
And on our 993's, we've all read or experienced personally the poor material standard of the valve guides. That, again, was a design flaw.
In general, I would opt for automated manufacturing processes over hand built.
01-05-2010, 05:21 PM
#21
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I'd rather have the 993 door handles, even if installed by a robot.
01-08-2010, 03:34 PM
#22
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When I was on the factory tour in November, I asked the guide how the 993 engines were built as we toured the engine assembly line. He said that the 993 was the last of the hand-built 911s. Of course, the body panels were stamped and not hand-beaten. The guy who gave the tour had been working at Porsche since he was a kid during the 356 era.
