Keadog

I have lots of questions. I'm new to Rennlist but not new to 911s. Had an '88 turbo cab (white/blue/blue) 1991-1996, '87 Carrera 1994-2001 (Venetian Blue/Linen) and a '98 C2S 2001-2005 (Arena Red/Grey). Looking to get another 911 by springtime (May or so here in Ohio) and have been following here, eBay, dealers and most of the highline non-dealer dealers since November. I'm perplexed by several apparent market conditions that one or more of you wise folks here may be willing to share your knowledge so as to help me better understand the things I just don't get. Here, in no specific order, are my main questions:

1. Wide body versus TT pricing. My C2S was a great car; fun to drive, beautiful, etc. However, I test drove a '96TT in 2000 - the acceleration and torque of that engine blew me away. The deal just didn't make financial sense at the time. Now, however, I see places asking $58K for a nice low mileage C2S (see recent post here) while there are several low mileage 2 owner TTs not selling in the mid $60s. I just don't get it. What am I missing? I would always cough up the extra $5-10K or wait until I could for the extra power. Having driven both cars, I don't see any advantage of not having the TT with pricing so close.

2. 993 versus 997. I know this is a 993 forum, so I figured a good place to ask opinions about the older versus water cooled cars. There are scads of left over '09 911S 6 speed coupes all over the country (I found one dealer who still had a "new" 2005 listed). Dealers who are serious about moving them are now taking $20K+ off sticker for never titled cars with 0 miles. When coupled with 1.9% financing (if they continue into the new year), you can find a well optioned 911S for under $80K. I know it's completely apples to oranges, but that's getting pretty attractive for a brand new car with almost free financing. Any thoughts on a brand new one vs. 993s? Biases welcomed, mainly from people who have actually experienced both.

3. During my prolonged down time over Christmas, I also found LOTS of unsold 2010 GT3s (almost all black, white or silver - didn't count red). Basically no one asking over sticker anymore. If I'm still waiting and they can't unload 2010s either, I might consider a move to one of these. I don't see the economy getting much better by fall, even though I'm sure the incumbents will do everything possible to make the economy "look" better until after the elections.

4. For anyone still reading, I am seriously looking for a fairly priced, low miles, documented, as few owners as possible 993 6 speed coupe (only) at this point. No guards red or speed yellow. Most other colors considered. I'm in no hurry and, sadly, I feel the longer I wait the worse the economy will be.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any helpful input.

goofballdeluxe

I'll stick to your first question as others with more knowledge will chime in about the others.

I would suggest that the reason you see a C2S for $58K and then a 993TT for only, say, $10K more, is probably the C2S is over-priced and has zero issues at that price point, whereas the 993TT may have some issues that need to be addressed or may potentially have a "story". I would say that a zero stories 993TT in pristine shape is hard to come by at $60K. That said, I totally agree with you that it makes little sense to buy a C2S in the mid-50s range, when a comparable 993TT can be had for about $10K more. There are a few, a very few, who actually prefer the NA 993s to the Turbo, so there's something else to consider as well.

944/951guy

Well your comparisions make sence but once you throw the 2010' GT3 in the mix everything else goes out the window for me. You cant compare a 2010' GT3 to any of those other Porsche's. If you have the funds get the GT3.

Keadog

You are, of course, correct 944/951guy about the GT3. More of a musing about the potential future of the retail market. If I haven't found what I want by summer and they still haven't sold them, I would consider the extra $$ to get into one, especially if they are still loaning essentially free money. I think my main question is the NA vs. TT and 993 series vs. discounted, subsidized '09 911Ss.
Thanks for the rapid responses...

944/951guy

Well Thats a hard comparision. I would have to drive both a 993TT and a 09 911S and decide from the driving experiance. But I think I would end up in the 993TT because I dont really like how BIG the new 911's are.

red89

By fall, you'll find lots of unsold GT3s. More 993s will have left for Germany.

matt777

Your talking about cars priced from $30 to $100k plus I think you need to decide what you want to spend, what performance you want and if you prefer a classic vs newer car. Its fun to hum and haw over it though.

For the money, a 993C2 is a great car IMHO. I find mine a great compromise between muscle cars and new sterile and common sports cars. Obviously the step up to a C2S or TT or GT3 is a big one financially at least. If I was going to do it, the C2S would be off the list. I just don't see the value performance wise as compared to the C2 at $50k. Some do.

After that, an '06 Carrera S seems like the next logical step up at $45-$50. If you take the 996 off of the table, since you didn't mention it, a 993TT seems to be next in line but at that price level, you need to really want one over the new Porsche technology and styling.

Now if you start talking about the future value of your next purchase, that would be another interesting discussion.

DaveM993

If you are looking at it as an investment, at all, then the 993 turbo is the way to go. Otherwise, as others have said, you need to whittle down your options/wants/desires. You have covered alot of territory. If I was in your shoes and had the dough, and wanted the best overall performance, street AND track, then the '10GT3 is it.

murfysflaw

I'm targeting another 993 for my next purchase, but it'd be hard to pass up a 997 or a GT3 if I had the funds and depending on what my primary use would be.

If it was going to be a car I'd keep for a long, long time, 993 would be the way I'd go. If it were likely another transitional car or more of a daily drive, 997 all the way.

Keadog

Great responses all. Thanks. I absolutely agree I would rather have a decent C2 for $30Kish than any C2S over $40, ever. Someone must be willing to pay a huge premium for "turbo look" but not I.
Also think TTs have held their value amazingly well and probably will continue to do so but I have owned enough cars and trucks to know I can NEVER think of a car as an investment. My 911s have done pretty well for me. People seem a bit reluctant to talk actual prices here but I'm happy to provide the numbers for the cars I have owned (though the data is so old it will be of historical interest only):

My '88 Turbo cab was purchased 10/91 from Stoddard's for $63500. They had sold and serviced it (sticker a little over $90K) and put me in touch with the original owner. It had about 7K miles on it. I sold it in late 1996 for $50K with around 10K miles (definitely didn't drive it enough, so lots of $$$/mile). Not too horrible. I bought my '87 carrera from the original owner in 1994 with about 25K miles for $28500 and sold it back to the original owner in 2001 for $25000 with just under 50k miles (that's 7 years of driving for almost nothing). I paid $58k for my '98 C2S in 2001 with 17K miles (sticker almost $80K; had the factory aero kit F/R plus other goodies) at the end of my Audi salesman's personal lease. I sold that car to Stoddards for $47K in 2005 with about 28K miles. So, cars are toys, period. I'm no car dealer.

I am leaning toward the TT. Any car will be a driver, though, and the idea of NAV, SAT radio and ipod, etc, is appealing (I realize all can be added, but factory is smoother for no talent me). I'll probably end up taking the "best deal", whatever that seems at the time. Our kids are gone, so my wife and I now share an A6, my Tundra and our daughter's '99 New Beetle (she is living in NYC so we are "saving" it for her and drive it to the movies and grocery store from time to time). So, it will be a nice weather driver, but not really a "daily driver". I only brought up the GT3 because I think they will be dealing on them, maybe before buy something. I can "afford" one, but probably won't plunk down over $100K for a toy. Oh, I'm also no race driver and realize it. I have done multiple driver's ed events at Mid Ohio and Nelson's Ledges, but no pro need fear losing his/her ride to me.

Thanks again for the info. At the very least, I think I better understand the wide body thing - had one, wouldn't pay a premium for another.

Parnelli

Keadog;

congrats on an excellent post. you've asked some great ??'s. I, too, have always wondered why someone would pay 50's for a C2S vs. 10G's more for a 993 TT. I've spent a LOT of time asking the same questions over the past year that you posted .
I personally went with the 993 TT. I got sick of seeing my other 911's depreciate so much in value (996...wow, what a plunge!). I figure my $60K ish investment in the 993TT should never depreciate much in value. I am an investment advisor so that was important to me.....maybe not for everyone, though.
Net net I figure the 993TT is the best car financially, has that classic Porsche look, and will beat the pants off most other 911's at the track/street/highway.

P.S. I agree w/ your thoughts on the economy

Steve 96C4S

I would buy the car you like the best after driving it for 30 minutes.

Personally, I'd get a simple C2 and have TONS of money left over for trips to Europe and repairs on your car.

Good luck!

goofballdeluxe

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here, but I'll also add:

I, for one, have never liked the look of any tail on any 911 as much as the look without one. To my eyes, the tail detracts from the overall shape. That tail is the only thing that keeps me from buying a 993 Turbo tomorrow.

For my money, the 993 C4S/C2S may not be as fast as the Turbo, but I think the 993 C4S/C2S may be the best looking Porsches of all time.

Steve 96C4S

Me like your way of thinking

Edward

My thoughts exactly. This really isn't a question that can be narrowed down since your net is far too wide. You will get one recommendation, then you can too easily say "but what about the...."

Do you want raw power over?? Or lighter weight and visceral/tactile feedback? Or classic lines? Or real air-cooled tradition? Or low miles and pristine? Or new with warranty? Honestly, you've got to do more soul searching and decide what your priorities are, maybe even list them in order.

You've landed in the best Porsche forum/community that I have ever seen, IMHO, keadog. May I suggest you redefine your query and you will get much better responses from this seriously knowledgeable and helpful community of addicts, er, enthusiasts. Oh, and since you did ask a question, I would say given the dollar range you are speaking of, you can get a lovely 993 and a decently setup track-only car ...heheh, my personal advice, but that is, um, just me

Edward