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Old 12-16-2009, 10:36 AM
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Flying Finn
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Guys, could it be that the legend of the RS sunroof comes from 964 RS? For that you could order one, correct? Or is that a legend too!?
Old 12-16-2009, 05:17 PM
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clubsport1
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In the Uk a 964 touring was available. These were a genuine RS shell, suspension and engine, but fitted with electric windows, pas (as rhd), comfy recliners etc..
These cars were considerably more expensive than a C2, priced as an RS with extras. They managed to to sell a grand total of 7 of these cars, I know at least 2 of these have a sunroof fitted.
The 964 RS touring was also available in Japan, I have no idea on stats or sunroofs fitted, but if you opted for a touring over a regular lightweight, then you may well have been interested in a sunroof?
Old 12-16-2009, 05:32 PM
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timothymoffat
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^^^^Although not my first choice in 964RS spec (that would be a standard, no-option, non-CS model in Viper Green), a nice RS Touring in Midnight Blue with a sunroof would be a nice way to spend some warm summer days.
Old 12-16-2009, 05:48 PM
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clubsport1
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Each to their own, but 964RS is closer to a C2 version than a 993RS....If you found a 964 C2, chipped it to above RS power and fitted decent suspension and roll bars, you would have the same thing in a C2 for < 1/3 rd of the price of an RS.
The 964 RS is very raw even in lightweight form, in CS it is practically a cup....not that many RS enthusiasts "get" the tourings, having said that, they are rare and a genuine RS shell, so hold their money well.
If you are going for an RS, you may as well do it properly!
Old 12-16-2009, 07:09 PM
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RS 197
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Originally Posted by clubsport1
Each to their own, but 964RS is closer to a C2 version than a 993RS....If you found a 964 C2, chipped it to above RS power and fitted decent suspension and roll bars, you would have the same thing in a C2 for < 1/3 rd of the price of an RS.
The 964 RS is very raw even in lightweight form, in CS it is practically a cup....not that many RS enthusiasts "get" the tourings, having said that, they are rare and a genuine RS shell, so hold their money well.
If you are going for an RS, you may as well do it properly!
???? You ever driven one??? I have had both. I feel like the 964 RS is just as much an RS as the 993 RS, maybe more... No power windows, steering, Air Con, airbag...If you drove a 993 C2 and a 993 RS VS a 964 C2 and a 964 RS... The 964 RS would hands down be the most unique. It is an amazing road going car. 993 RS is way more civilized.

It takes way more than a chip and suspension to turn a C2 into an RS..

Just my .02
Old 12-16-2009, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by timothymoffat
^^^^I was lucky enough to see roughly 25 993RS' at the end of 95, 2 at a dealer in London, 3 in France, and 5 at various locations in Germany. Plus a dozen or so RS/CS cars at the factory. None had a sunroof, two had airbags. I've heard that cars sold in Japan were equipped more like a regular 993, some even having rear seats! NEVER seen any evidence though.
You are incorrect. Japanese RS are the same as European RS except that they had CS wings and electric windows (and I assume A/C due to the weather). They were not like regular Carreras. The RSCS in Japan were not "official dealer imports" and are European spec cars. I wonder what my brother's pristine RS is worth at 9000km! A well known dealer advertised a Japanese RS with very low miles for 125000Euros in the not too distant past - that car had been repaired! My RS personally imported from Germany 6 years ago has electric windows, dual airbags and aircon with colour coded shifter and handbrake. I'm sure if you had the cash, you could have stipulated almost anything at the time of manufacture.
Old 12-16-2009, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RS man
You are incorrect. Japanese RS are the same as European RS except that they had CS wings and electric windows (and I assume A/C due to the weather). They were not like regular Carreras. The RSCS in Japan were not "official dealer imports" and are European spec cars. I wonder what my brother's pristine RS is worth at 9000km! A well known dealer advertised a Japanese RS with very low miles for 125000Euros in the not too distant past - that car had been repaired! My RS personally imported from Germany 6 years ago has electric windows, dual airbags and aircon with colour coded shifter and handbrake. I'm sure if you had the cash, you could have stipulated almost anything at the time of manufacture.
As I said, there are rumors over the spec of "Japanese" 993RS' but I've never seen pics or info of a Japanese-delivered (when new) RS. Your statement that they "are the same as European RS except....." is not to far removed from my statement (IMHO). There were several options available for the RS in all markets it was sold, many of them bringing them closer to "normal" Carrera spec on the inside at least. Also, the 125000Euro RS of which you speak, if the same low-KM Riviera Blue example, was, as you said, repaired and also originally from Europe I believe.

LOVE your RS btw.
Old 12-16-2009, 11:05 PM
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Might as well post the pix Harry
Old 12-16-2009, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Cactus
Might as well post the pix Harry
+1.
Old 12-17-2009, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by RS 197
???? You ever driven one??? I have had both. I feel like the 964 RS is just as much an RS as the 993 RS, maybe more... No power windows, steering, Air Con, airbag...If you drove a 993 C2 and a 993 RS VS a 964 C2 and a 964 RS... The 964 RS would hands down be the most unique. It is an amazing road going car. 993 RS is way more civilized.

It takes way more than a chip and suspension to turn a C2 into an RS..

Just my .02
Not sure I agree with you... the one i had was very light at 1238kgs. It had nothing in the way of options. Not even a radio or speakers.

It did have a PS though. It was nearly as bare as a 964 RS and was very potent. I regret selling.
Old 12-17-2009, 04:46 AM
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clubsport1
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Originally Posted by RS 197
???? You ever driven one??? I have had both. I feel like the 964 RS is just as much an RS as the 993 RS, maybe more... No power windows, steering, Air Con, airbag...If you drove a 993 C2 and a 993 RS VS a 964 C2 and a 964 RS... The 964 RS would hands down be the most unique. It is an amazing road going car. 993 RS is way more civilized.

It takes way more than a chip and suspension to turn a C2 into an RS..

Just my .02
RS197, my response was in context to Tim Moffats answer that he would quite like an RS touring with a sunroof and electric windows for summer evening drives.

I have been fortunate enough to drive regular 964 M002 and M003 Cs on both road and track.

The 964 RS touring we were referring to, has pas, sunroof, leccy windows, comfort seats etc,,,,as you read I prefer an RS with none of these features, especially as the lhd cars do not have pas unlike all rhd 964 RS.

What I was trying to say is that I would feel cheated if I spent full Rs money to buy a fully specced touring version, where as for 1/3rd of the money you could upgrade a fully specced C2 if you want to enjoy summer evenings with the roof open as Tim suggested. Each to their own, but that is not what the RS experience is about to me,,,certainly not saying I am correct, but an opinion I somehow have.

I have the 964 & 993 RS technical spec bulletins and having studied both, I still feel there is more difference between a 993RS and it's C2 relation than for the equivalent 964 versions.

The notion of chipping and upgrading suspension, was in comparison, with a full fat touring Rs with all the trimmings.....I have seen, but never driven a touring version. There is a significant difference between driving a lightweight to a CS version, I would be amazed if there wasn't a huge difference in driving a 100kg heavier comfort spec touring version over a lightweight?

I hope that makes sense of the previous post?
Old 12-17-2009, 12:25 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Flying Finn
Guys, could it be that the legend of the RS sunroof comes from 964 RS? For that you could order one, correct? Or is that a legend too!?
You could order a sunroof on the 964RS LW, it wasn't on the optionlist but a guy here in Sweden wanted a sunroof and stated that he would like to pay for the cost. A question was sent off to Stuttgart who replied that the cost for the sunroof would be equivalent to USD 20K, and that is back in 1992. He ordered without a sunroof. I have never seen a sunroof on a 964RS Basic/lightweight nor a N/GT/Clubsport.

Of course you can build something better than a RS on a "common" C2, there has been an evolution hasn't there. But it would or could never be an real RS albeit faster and perhaps more usable.

For me an real RS is about owning one of the cars that Porsche did build with the knowledge they had for street/track use and furthermore in a small series that will keep it's value and perhaps even increase.

Is the 993RS a better car than 964RS? Of course things got better and better in the 90's as well. However the 964 is more raw and lively than the 993, it gives me more pleasure to drive even though I know deep down inside that the 993 is a better car.

Having fun is important, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKFV_g7Nkh0.

This video is from inside my car (964RS lightweight) chasing a 964C2 that is completely stripped, no heating, no fan, no interior, no nothing. It has been upgraded with a complete 964 CUP chassis.

Regards
Anders
Old 12-17-2009, 12:45 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by clubsport1
.....
I have the 964 & 993 RS technical spec bulletins and having studied both, I still feel there is more difference between a 993RS and it's C2 relation than for the equivalent 964 versions.
T....
and that's the truth, in many respects they got the same or similar treatment, but the 993RS received significant improvements over stock or 964RS in several areas using specialized racier components not seen in street versions, at they same time they optimized the suspension to make driving easier or at least less taxing(I love p/s on a track car), this last is probably what many are referring to as rawness more like the older cars
Old 12-17-2009, 01:59 PM
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clubsport1
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Bill, I found another one out over the weekend.

There was an RS meet at a UK Porsche dealer, they had 2.7RS, 2.8RSR, 3.0RS, 3.0RSR, 3.0SCRS, 964RS, 964RSR,993RS, 993RSR etc... to promote the arrival of the new 997GT3RS.

Back to the point, I have always been intrigued by the 964RS thin rear screen with the non functioning demist. The 964RSR which I saw had the tinted clear, rear screen,,this part was carried over for the 993RS. A small detail, but nice to see race parts carried over.

Incidently this car was one of the 2 IMSA winning cars from 1994, both of which are in the UK...How can you chaps let your heritage so easily?
Old 12-17-2009, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by clubsport1
RS197, my response was in context to Tim Moffats answer that he would quite like an RS touring with a sunroof and electric windows for summer evening drives.

I have been fortunate enough to drive regular 964 M002 and M003 Cs on both road and track.

The 964 RS touring we were referring to, has pas, sunroof, leccy windows, comfort seats etc,,,,as you read I prefer an RS with none of these features, especially as the lhd cars do not have pas unlike all rhd 964 RS.

What I was trying to say is that I would feel cheated if I spent full Rs money to buy a fully specced touring version, where as for 1/3rd of the money you could upgrade a fully specced C2 if you want to enjoy summer evenings with the roof open as Tim suggested. Each to their own, but that is not what the RS experience is about to me,,,certainly not saying I am correct, but an opinion I somehow have.

I have the 964 & 993 RS technical spec bulletins and having studied both, I still feel there is more difference between a 993RS and it's C2 relation than for the equivalent 964 versions.

The notion of chipping and upgrading suspension, was in comparison, with a full fat touring Rs with all the trimmings.....I have seen, but never driven a touring version. There is a significant difference between driving a lightweight to a CS version, I would be amazed if there wasn't a huge difference in driving a 100kg heavier comfort spec touring version over a lightweight?

I hope that makes sense of the previous post?

I get it... I agree totaly, a 964 RS with all that crap would lesson the experience...

Happy Holidays..


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