Hi guys,

Could I get some perspective on early input back from Tony & Tom at Callas Rennsport on the PPI for a '95 C4? The car in question has 37k mileage, and features an M030 suspension and sport seats. The car did great on its leak down & compression tests, the engine's in great shape. But they said the car could use some TLC on the service side, that it has original spark plugs for instance. So...what am I looking at for service on that basis?

The car also has a couple repainted panels (not sure if touch-up or total respray) and that's not a concern for me but wouldn't that affect its resale value?

Also, this is separate question from the PPI stuff, but how comfortable are the sport seats for a 6'2" guy with, um, large bones? (Yeah, that would be my husband.)

Thanks for your thoughts!!

Cheers,
Liz

 

Probably could use a "big" service, the 60K mile one, even though the car has considerably less mileage. Plugs (12), dist. caps & rotors (2) and drive belt, belts (3), oil/oil filters (2), air and pollen filters, brake fluid flush, and transmission oil change. This could be more than the car needs but consider the fact that the car is 15ish years old and, if you're unsure of when these were last done, it's a good way to set a baseline for the future. No mention of leaky valve cover gaskets (very common) or timing chain gaskets?

The repainted panels shouldn't be a big deal as long as they were for cosmetic damage from stone chips etc. No accident damage? Accident damage can reduce resale value so confirm history.

As to the seats, as they're the later style sport seats, they're slightly less confining than the earlier ones and, IMO, quite comfortable. Comfort level can only be decided by who's in the seat. One person's comfy might not be the same as the next.

Use the service issues as a negotiating point for the price. As I said in your earlier thread, Truespeed is asking top dollar for the car so it should be in top shape. As long as the problems are addressed and all questions answered you should be able to strike a deal.

 

is the car the one at truspeed? if it is, it is a great car, but expensive at low $40s..... GL.

 

I've had an eye on this car as well (for a winter car). It's a nice color combination with some interesting options.
I must say, however, that for anything close to their asking price, this car should be perfect - a flawless PPI, up to date service and no paint work. This doesn't appear to be the case.
I would be looking for a very significant discount or move on - there are better cars out there IMO.
In fact, I think there's a turquoise C4S on consignment there that can be had for the same $.
Good luck

 

Hopefully it's had more a one or 2 oil changes during it's life.

Yes, I would do a 30k service, it's not cheap, but only need to be done every 30k. It would not hurt to change all the fluids, including the brake fluid.

I'm also "big boned" & 6ft, the sport seats are more then comfortable for me.

Repaired panels are not much concern as long as the panels were not replaced. The nose of these cars get torn up, even on low mile cars. Mine was purchased with 36k, & need the front end resprayed.

 

Thanks for the inputs! The car doesn't have any accident history. And I've already negotiated the car down below $40k but the data I'm gathering re: what the PPI indicates should let me negotiate further. Appreciate your help with some hard #s! Is a 30k/60k service about $2k?

Cheers,
Liz

 

$2k sounds about right +- a bit for your area.

 

Well, well, well, my dear Rennlist. I'm now a bit of a pickle. The PPI from the amazing Callas Rennsport turned up a few more things. And most seriously, possibly, it returned a FAIL result on the Callas SAI test for valve guide wear.

Here's my question to the community: is there documented evidence of this test predicting the slide of the engine into top-end rebuild time? It makes sense to me that an O2 based test reveals this issue. TruSpeed is calling its validity completely into question. I've searched the forums and read about Tony putting on tech forums for PCA and know he's published and an accomplished racer. Most importantly, I've talked with Tony and believe he is an absolute expert on the 993 and is simply calling it like he sees it, which is accurately.

I appreciate your adding more data about the Callas SAI test for valve guide wear in particular.

Honestly, taking a step back, I'm prepared for a top-end rebuild to be part of owning this car. There's just something about this 911...as long as combustion engines are popular, she's a keeper. Maybe I should seek an older one that's already had it done? Anybody wanna sell me their sport seats?

Other issues from the PPI include drive belts cracked, rear wing accordian torn, clutch slave cyclinder creaking and front differential leaking oil at input shaft seal. These all should be fixed up before purchase, right? And people see these sorts of things on 15 year old cars, right?

Cheerio,
Liz

 

Tony's folks use a PST2 (possibly PIWIS at this point in time) on the 993, part of the purpose to use the testers is to look at the SAI circuit and how well its flowing. Looking at O2 sensors, rather their voltages (96+ cars) looking at changes while the SAI pump is activated. Its a smart non-invasive way to look at this common trouble spot with the 993.

This car is priced at top dollar and given these smallish problems, I would hope Rob at Truspeed would take car of anything brought up from Tony's PPI report.

Tough call really. Speak with Rob, see what he'll offer to take care of.

 

With a 30k service, plus all the other stuff, your looking at 4k in deffered maintenance. Then, a 6-9k top end rebuild...
I think we can safely say the previos owner didn't maintain the car. If you can get Truspeed to pay for all the maintenance issues, plus take half of the cost of a top end rebuild, then it starts to look like a decent deal. Like others have said, you have many nice cars to choose from at 30k in this market.

 

And now the TruSpeed head mechanic is telling me that the car's service records are stamped with a 30k mile service—10 years ago—and that all cars have minor oil seepage, like at the front differential input shaft seal, when they're used. Starting to think I need a 3rd opinion to break the deadlock.

What's the deal with the '95s, do they experience the valve guide wear issue or not? Their mechanic is saying it's compression & leak-down that expose this issue (and those results were fantastic) and you can't measure by the SAI because the '95s don't have SAI???

Cheers,
Liz

 

95s DO have an SAI pump, but they only have OBD I rather than the OBD II of the 96-98 cars. A clogged SAI will trigger a CEL on the later OBD II cars but won't trigger anytihng on the 95. All 993s have the same potential for clogged SAI passages.

A 10-year-old 30K service means it's time for another, regardless of mileage. This is why it has cracked belts. This is where low-miles can hurt, seals and all rubber parts age and crack. Nothing to worry about if they're addressed.

Top-end rebuild? Valve guides are a weak spot of 993s (all 911s?) and technically speaking (I AM IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, AN EXPERT) this car may fall into the range of needing a top end. Personally, I'd take care of all the deferred maintenance and drive it. Check your oil consumtion and then decide. These cars need to be drivem regularly and driven like they were meant to: HARD. These cars, and their engines, are not like later 996s (non GT2/3/Turbo) where you can have "catastrophic" engine failure. Instead they generally burn increasing amounts of oil until it becomes obvious.

The problems this car has seem to be normal for lowish mile cars. Strong points for price negotiation or look elsewhere.

 

If you want another option on a 993 C4, mine is still available after buyer changed his plans. she has had 30k service and a real beauty. Had last 3 years and looked for her for 1 year, second owner.

 

Liz, Like to let you know that we appreciate your PPI updates....

 

How much $