GT Evo tie rods vs. RS tie rods ?
10-13-2009, 05:16 PM
#18
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naah,, happy getting my c2 sorted
it needs the rods lowering, no doubt about that
also, there's the small matter of an 80k interest free loan for an RS... if you can help out in that dept then do shout !
it needs the rods lowering, no doubt about that
also, there's the small matter of an 80k interest free loan for an RS... if you can help out in that dept then do shout !
10-13-2009, 05:28 PM
#19
Not sure about int free, but I am sure terms could be arranged!......wouldn't be a bad idea to pitch up in the c2, to get an RS test drive or 2, that way, you could see if you could feel any difference to justify the outlay on modifications.
10-13-2009, 06:13 PM
#20
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I dont need to justify making the tie rods horizontal, thats the way they should be.. in any car
Quite simply, if they aren't, then you get bumpsteer which is especially prominent in a car with stiffer spring rates and a camber curve thats distinctly non-linear.
basically, this isn't to do with RS anything.. its about getting my C2 absolutely perfect
Quite simply, if they aren't, then you get bumpsteer which is especially prominent in a car with stiffer spring rates and a camber curve thats distinctly non-linear.
basically, this isn't to do with RS anything.. its about getting my C2 absolutely perfect
10-14-2009, 06:41 AM
#22
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10-14-2009, 07:07 AM
#23
All I was asking, with respect to Porsche, "what were they thinking" with respect to the tie rods and set up on a C2.
There seem to be quite a few c2 owners, who are changing their set ups.
At the time these cars were built, Porsche appeared to over engineer the cars and the accountants didn't seem to have such an input.
So, what was the motivation for Porsche to fit less than optimal parts, fitting rods that were less than straight, which you point out is, not the way they should be.
Were the C2 ones fitted for comfort?.......genuinely interested in why Porsche would have fitted these parts on C2, is it cheaper hub carriers, different to the RS, was it totally down to costing after all?
There seem to be quite a few c2 owners, who are changing their set ups.
At the time these cars were built, Porsche appeared to over engineer the cars and the accountants didn't seem to have such an input.
So, what was the motivation for Porsche to fit less than optimal parts, fitting rods that were less than straight, which you point out is, not the way they should be.
Were the C2 ones fitted for comfort?.......genuinely interested in why Porsche would have fitted these parts on C2, is it cheaper hub carriers, different to the RS, was it totally down to costing after all?
10-14-2009, 07:23 AM
#25
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I dont need to justify making the tie rods horizontal, thats the way they should be.. in any car
Quite simply, if they aren't, then you get bumpsteer which is especially prominent in a car with stiffer spring rates and a camber curve thats distinctly non-linear.
basically, this isn't to do with RS anything.. its about getting my C2 absolutely perfect
Quite simply, if they aren't, then you get bumpsteer which is especially prominent in a car with stiffer spring rates and a camber curve thats distinctly non-linear.
basically, this isn't to do with RS anything.. its about getting my C2 absolutely perfect
One difference is that the GT2, RSR both have their front suspension on the wide body position whereas the 993 and 993RS have their front suspension on the narrow body position, and that makes a difference in steering feel, vehicle handling, and geometry. The GT2 Evo uprights were designed for the widebody, but had to be homologated in a street car, hence the 993RS. While the RS does have improved front end feel, it falls short of the RSR due to this mounting position difference, and in the RS, it is not as optimal.
On the power steering, I much prefer the power steering over non power steering and don't find it numb as Bill mentions.
10-14-2009, 07:29 AM
#26
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All I was asking, with respect to Porsche, "what were they thinking" with respect to the tie rods and set up on a C2.
There seem to be quite a few c2 owners, who are changing their set ups.
At the time these cars were built, Porsche appeared to over engineer the cars and the accountants didn't seem to have such an input.
So, what was the motivation for Porsche to fit less than optimal parts, fitting rods that were less than straight, which you point out is, not the way they should be.
Were the C2 ones fitted for comfort?.......genuinely interested in why Porsche would have fitted these parts on C2, is it cheaper hub carriers, different to the RS, was it totally down to costing after all?
There seem to be quite a few c2 owners, who are changing their set ups.
At the time these cars were built, Porsche appeared to over engineer the cars and the accountants didn't seem to have such an input.
So, what was the motivation for Porsche to fit less than optimal parts, fitting rods that were less than straight, which you point out is, not the way they should be.
Were the C2 ones fitted for comfort?.......genuinely interested in why Porsche would have fitted these parts on C2, is it cheaper hub carriers, different to the RS, was it totally down to costing after all?
i haven't got time to explain it all here but suffice to say that:
The parts on a C2 ARE optimal for standard or sport ride height. They are no less than optimal and not 'bent'.
When you lower the car beyond sport ride height to RS height and lower, the tie rods tilt up too much and are not parallel to the floor. This means excessive toe changes over bumps which means you get unwanted bumpsteer which is unpleasant and undesirable. You have to solve this by either changing the height of the steering rack or raising the mounting point of the tie rods to get them horizontal again. The RS or EVO uprights + RS or EVO tie rods achieve this.
So you see, all im doing is doing what porsche did/recommends. My only question is the subjective differences between the 2 different styles of tie rods so if you have any input on that I'd be glad to hear it
10-14-2009, 07:30 AM
#27
Agree on the power steering.......after driving 964 RS&CS without, 993 RS&CS with and 996Gt3RS with, to me the 993 has the best steering feel of these.....
I appreciate set up does influence this, especially a full track spec non assisted steering rack, where you certainly need some upper body strength....Each to his own etc...
I appreciate set up does influence this, especially a full track spec non assisted steering rack, where you certainly need some upper body strength....Each to his own etc...
10-14-2009, 07:41 AM
#28
I have experienced bump steer in a 996 and ridiculously lowered 964.....
So, the angled tie rods are fine at standard heights...
I was just intrigued by the statement that horizontal rods should be fitted to all cars,,,yet it sounds like Porsche did nothing wrong after all on the standard set ups.
So, the angled tie rods are fine at standard heights...
I was just intrigued by the statement that horizontal rods should be fitted to all cars,,,yet it sounds like Porsche did nothing wrong after all on the standard set ups.
10-14-2009, 07:50 AM
#29
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porsche didnt make any faux pas.... and none of the tie rods are 'angled' or 'bent' or 'not straight'
on a standard car you use the standard tie rods
on an RS or a GT2 etc.. the uprights are different with a higher mounting point for the tie rod to correct the bumpsteer. But the orientation of mounting poing is such that the tie rod end design needs to be slightly different. Also, as the rs and evo are more focused cars, the join between inner and outer tie rod was made more direct. So you use different tie rods and you cant use the standard tie rods.
on a standard car you use the standard tie rods
on an RS or a GT2 etc.. the uprights are different with a higher mounting point for the tie rod to correct the bumpsteer. But the orientation of mounting poing is such that the tie rod end design needs to be slightly different. Also, as the rs and evo are more focused cars, the join between inner and outer tie rod was made more direct. So you use different tie rods and you cant use the standard tie rods.
