timothymoffat

^^^^Very well stated Jeff.

It's funny, starting in January 2010 Canadians will be able to import a 993RS into Canada WITHOUT modification as the 95 models will be fifteen years old. I think a CS would be an exception as I don't believe we can register a car with a cage for road use, I'm unsure on this point. Is this relevant to this conversation? Maybe; IF anyone were to bring an RS into Canada it would be much easier for a potential US buyer to evaluate a car beforehand. You'd still be left to federalize the car (not even remotely cheap) and it would be far easier if the car had the airbag(s) option.

Too bad the 993RS' never became "cheap" like the 964RS did 6-8 years ago!!! Any I've seen for sale in Europe recently range from merely expensive (highish miles, previous damage, a bit rough or any combination of the three) to simply breathtaking (there have been several sub-10Kmile cars with all paperwork and full history come up in the last year with eyewatering pricetags). As much as I want to own the "real deal" I think I'd have to have a clone/replica to actually enjoy driving.

schmidtwerk

Thanks Tim, sorry I missed you at Monterey. Work sucks!

The 1995 993RS cost $147,900 DM ($105,000 USA dollars) so the car was damn expensive even when new. The slump in prices hit several years back in the early 2000's and have regained value. Currently the liquidity is an issue with only the best cars selling and the average cars showing longer market times. I think its even safe to say the prices have unwound a little in the past 6 months, but by no means making the car affordable. The reality for any US buyer is a serious commitment in price, heart ache, and unforseen issues with buying the right car. With only 1,014 993RS cars built with 277 of those in clubsport and another 150 in right hand drive, less than 600 cars existed new that are an option for US import. Now subtract from than number the non air bag cars, wreck cars, rebuilders, repaints, and dozens of examples that were totaled long ago. The final number is at some point going to be much smaller than the market demand and prices will rise. The car is the last of an era, a piece of history never to be repeated by Porsche. The future holds a different direction, still exciting, but nothing like a light weight aircooled machine.

clubsport1

Tks for the clarification on the costings, it makes sense what you say with respect to the specific premium examples as well....I never realised the cars would be eligible to be used in Canada from 2010, that is one to watch as even if a handful of cars are purchased that is likely to have an impact.

I had an airbag, Recaro bucketed RS before my current CS, these cars were cheaper in Europe between 2000-2004, before thay started to take off, practically doubling between 2006 and today. My previous RS bought at this time was approx 40% of it's value today, thankfully the owner has improved the car further.

Just to add, the value thing is all very well, but when I got my first RS, apart from realising it was supposed to be a special car, I was slightly underwhelmed. After a few months of using it as a daily driver and more importantly time spent on track, it all clicked and I awoke to it's true potential.

The point being higher values tend to lead to the cars being used less, especially on track, where you tend to be more selective on who you drive with, the true value of an RS is actually using it. I probably had more fun with my higher mileage RS than my low miles CS on this basis. So if only the best of the best examples are making it over to the US, perhaps the owners are missing out slightly on some aspects of the best part of ownership?

schmidtwerk

Agreed, same can be said for plenty of cars in terms of shear performance, and agreed the 993RS driven at 10 10ths is unlike any other Porsche I've owned. The overall experience is similar to the best pair of skis you've ever owned that were only built that one year. In the case of the 993RS it is also a mental thing to know you have something truly special so much attention paid to all the special parts unique to the RS. In the states much of owning a 993RS is a bit of a ***** extension as well, similar to owning a 73RS. A 73RS is in fact underwhelming when you drive a GT3 3 days a week, but its simply how special the RS is and what is represents as a piece of history that makes the drive that much better. Again a 73RS driven at 10 10ths is something else regardless of when it was built. No USA drivers will track a 993RS road legal car at this point, I know that one was but no longer due to value. 5 clubsports did make the states, all but one are driven regular at the track. In reality most drivers will never get the full potential out of any Porsche that is not tracked. Most GT2s and 3s never see the track.....thats what I call not seeing the full potential.

Macca

Im with clubsport1 as I never got to drive my 993RS on the track. I was a bit underwhelmed for road use. FYI these cars are not valued as highly in NZ as UK or US. Ours are RHD of course...

Macca

...furthermore I personally get very nervous owing/driving something thats beocme so precious. Personally Id rather sell an 993 RS today and buy a few cars (such as 993 C2, and maybe something else or two) with the money which I could everyday, on the track or wherever without concern. Its like watches. I have a collection but none of them worth over 10k usd second hand. Sure I could sell them all and by one watch worth 70k but then I wouldnt want to wear it much - its would seem ridiculously indulgent and Id be nervous. Many will say "but yeah the 993RS is a btter ivestment etc" but hey - fact is none of us guys is gong to become rich through holding an RS for 20 years. Aorking at your business and selling it after 10 years for 2-3 mill bucks or more sure, buying some land for 400k and subdividing it 7 years later when the market is booming for 2.5 mill sure - but not a car. Its horses for course but when I sold my RS I made a good profit. Would I like another - sure - maybe when my net worth is 5 mill and I dont feel nervous driving a 150k car thats irreplaceable. I figure focus on te cire stuff and with a bit of luck and some hard work youll be in a position one day to hopefully buy any car you like. make mine a Miura, oops I meant McLaren F1....oops I meant '57 Sl300 gullwing....ooops you get the gist....

Carlos993

I agree with what's been said about the 993 RS being such a special drive. I have a 10K example, and I am also fortunate enough to have a 997 GT3 and a 993 4S which I consider my daily drivers. I get to drive the RS about every 6 weeks, but within 30 seconds of open road you know that the car is special. The GT3 is much faster, and the 4S more practical, but for me the RS wins in total driving experience.

Wilder

I think it would be great if you guys (who own 993RSs and 7GT3s) could provide further context to your comments. I've heard similar comments before from people who own several p-cars including 993RSs and 7GT3s. The consensus seems to be that while the 7GT3 is faster and technologically superior, the raw feeling of the 993RS cannot be matched by the 7GT3. Both commented on the 993RS's ability to out-handle the 7GT3 not to mention the sound, feel and response being more akin to a race car while the 7GT3 felt more like a tank...larger and less visceral. One of them went as far as suggesting that the 964RS has more of these "race car" characteristics than the 993RS.

race911

Sad to see how this car, like really no other "modern" Porsche, has turned into 3D art. Not that in my position I'd ever be able to afford a real one, but I can tell you it's a kick like none of the others to drive the faux RS. Not having really any interest in the water cooleds, thus zero in-seat experience (just my perspective running with them on the track), you have to take the "faster" part with a grain of salt. I can't say I've run mine against a pro, but I CAN say that none of the newer generation have anything for a well-sorted 993 chassis when it's advanced amateurs driving. I'm down on pure acceleration, but you can usually get that back under braking or by the next turn. Overall, part of it may be expendability--I'm out there with a $35K car v. stuff that's 2-6X more.

Macca

Hi race911. I tend to agree with you. This model didnt really even get to enjoy its moment in the sun as a serious toy/track car like the 964RS did most places around the world. Id go as far as to say that outside germany perhaps less than 15% of these vehicles have seen regular track time even when they were with their first (and perhaps welathiest) owners. The 993RS is a great car. However its recognition lies with Porschephiles and especially the anorak bridgade. When I ownedmine no one knew what it was apart form the Porsche Club crew. That was where the qudos was. On the average day my modded C2 got more attention if thats what you are aftr. Frankly for pure track work or even fast street a pristine 993 C2 6spd with Motons, BBS, Sparco buckets and 9M Billet heads making 360bhp for 70k usd would have run rings around a stock RS. Back in the day when I purchased mine the RS represented better value (they were costsing 70-80k back then). Now the 100k spare change and a 9m conversion such as mentioned would be a hard combination to beat. For those with a 993RS who arent enjoying income of 250k usd or more a year the temptation to drop them to collectors while the market is peaking must be a very difficult temptation......Im sure thats what die hard ownrs such as Rennlister "Monique" may have done.....

clubsport1

I have been tempted to sell mine, but as it took me 2 years to find and I couldn't really bring myself to buy one at current prices, I try to put it at the back of my mind. With the proceeds, I would most likely spend it on an Exige, beer, fast women and then waste the rest.

LouisJ, I have been fortunate enough to drive the 964/993 RS&CS variants on track, sometimes on the same day. If you consider the CS is nearer to the cup car and the regular RS is just a little more road friendly still, you can see why some consider the 964 to be more like a race car. It lacks the pas as per 993 cups, which to my mind, can actually make it seriously hard work on track, obviously that is set up dependent to a certain extent. I love the rev range of the 964RS & CS, but personally find the steering, suspension, braking, grip and gearing better on the 993RS & CS, the noises are different, but both sound truly epic!
To some extent it is as pointless as attempting to put forward an arguement as to which is your favourite super-model, on their day at the right track they are probably equally as much fun!

RS man

Monique may have just missed the peak . I'd be tempted to offload mine but I will look for a Clubsport. Wish I had the dough to buy one (could get a pristine one if I am prepared to pay and play).

schmidtwerk

I just got a call today from a serious well know collector restorer (I can't name names but we all know him as the real deal) looking for a perfect example 993RS for a USA customer. The potential buyer is not price sensitive and understood that the price for a perfect example was going to exceed the $200K mark was not an issue. The buyer with cash in hand is looking for a PERFECT example so very few cars will even qualify, the price will reflect this obviously. The buyer represents what I stated in my earlier thread about the quality and condition USA buyers-collector wish to own and what a typical buyer will pay.

RS man

Sorry mine is not perfect (interior is) but a good example and has dual airbags already. At the moment I do not want to sell unless I am sure I can replace with an equivalent RS or better still RSCS. You need to contact guys like Thomas Schmidt in Telgte, Germany.

RS man

You'd be mad to sell your RSCS - they are like gold dust especially good conditioned ones which aren't sold by dealers (who make a rather large profit). The Riviera Blue CS was very tempting but as I said in my previous post in another thread my brother could not confirm the history from the original dealer - told there were "No original records" except that the owner spent a lot of money on it so despite the reasonable price 1450 0000 YEN (note the subsequent price) he did not buy it. He bought a standard RS <10000km on it . Problem for people living in UK is the VAT + 10% import tax which makes it impossible for mere mortals like me to buy one and bring in to UK from Japan. Really wished I told my brother to buy a red CS on my behalf, which was really undervalued when the Pound was really strong.....