clubsport1

From previous postings where, we have discussed fitting various 993 parts to a C2, through to some of the no expense spared RS recreations, I wondered what was the true value of a 993RS stateside.

For the last 10 years or so I have been following prices of some of the more interesting Porsches, as I am on my second 993RS, these are obviously of interest to me.

First off I have seen a jump in value partly due to the strength of the Euro € in the last year as they have bought quite a few cars back which previously came to the Uk. This has led to some seriously optimistic (speculative) pricing with quite a few cars unsold, many of these appear to be a free option for the showroom on behalf of the owner.

I know of 2 cars which have recently sold, one a higher mileage (for an RS) useable car and a low mileage car which is almost too good to use, both are Lhd M002 cars, with a price range of approximately €80-120k.

So for the purpose of this game lets assume you can get a nice original genuine RS for €100k which is roughly $145,500 (Bloomberg mid mkt rate).

Now I appreciate it is not that simple to get hold of a 993RS in the US, yet some have managed it. How much would it cost to legalise a car?

I am not looking to export cars to the US, but it seems that with so few cars stateside for now, they may well be worth more over there than here in Europe?

ilko

IMO they are worth more here, because:

1) You have to buy it from Europe for the same amount a European would pay and then ship it and federalize it here, which costs an additional $25-45K (varies between states and companies that offer the service).
2) AFAIK there are only 4 road-legal 993 RS cars in the US which makes them even more rare and desirable. The perceived value increases and so does the price.

clubsport1

Agreed, but is the market so efficient, that a US 993RS is worth precisely $145 + 25k??

Not a big fan of EMH myself.

ilko

It's hard to put a "worth" on something we only have 4 of

The way to really find the price people are willing to pay is to take a federalized 993 RS to Monterey Historics or Barrett Jackson and put it on the auction block.

clubsport1

Agreed, but it is safe to assume if their were 40 examples stateside, they may well be worth less individually than the current 4 examples.

This was the point of my post, I appreciate it is not easy to get a 993RS into the US, obviously you need fairly deep pockets to buy one, but is it actually worthwhile financially as well as the ownership experience obviusly?

ilko

IMO they would be worth a lot less if there were 10 times as many. But that is unlikely to happen any time soon.

Is it worthwhile financially? The more you import, the less they are worth. So the answer is no.

clubsport1

ilko, Tks for that. Having spent some years as a market maker at a major US bank on wall street and struggled through the CFA, my financial accumen is such that I am able to work out that an increase in supply may well have a negative effect on price.

So, does anyone have a view as to value of one of the 4 RS available?

The thing to consider here, is that a Lhd RS is now a global commodity with buying interest from Japan to Denmark....I wonder if these cars will ever be desirable in the emerging economies, as they seem to be on course to be the last who will run a 3.8 litre flat six as the western world goes green.

ilko

The value of the RS already here is probably around the $200K mark.

My experience with dealing with customers from countries like Russia and the Middle East oil states (if that's what you mean by emerging economies) is that they are looking for the newest cars. Those collectors want to have the newest rare beasts, not 15 year old cars. I think a lot of it has to do with exposure to the older "classic" cars. Even the McLaren F1 is shrugged off over there these days.

ilko

To give you a little perspective on prices here for RS cars, consider this:

A 964 C4 Lightweight (federalized) was listed for $175,000 at a well-known Porsche specialist here last year. It sold.

A 964 US Cup (US street legal 964 RS for the sake of argument, 45 imported) with 500 miles on the clock was sold at a Christie's auction for $99,875 in 2006.

A 964 US Cup with 20K miles and set up for Club Racing sold for $105,000 last year.

A 964 US Cup in "as new" condition sold for $150,000 at Monterey last month.

So these cars are appreciating in value despite the economy. I would think the same would be true for a 993 RS.

Flying Finn

I agree with the $200k mark, has to be close to that.

2Many Cars

Clubsport,
As a (former?) marketmaker you undoubtably realize that with a universe of 4 cars, with at likely best two for sale at any time, it's pretty much impossible to call it a market, or at least a liquid one. Add in the fact that I suspect a US federalized car is likely a negative to a non-US buyer so assume the buyers are going to be biased to US residents. If some rich guy pays asking price for one of the two cars that still may not define the US market. I think ilko's approach to guestimate a rational price as as good as one can do with the understanding a motivated buyer or seller could easily make the guestimate look silly. A further difficulty in spotting a value is the recent weakness of the dollar which can at least on an asking price basis make cars here look cheap to non-US buyers - or make it look to US residents like the prices are rising. I'm afraid you're asking a question about a market where most trades are more one off transactions than a real market.

clubsport1

One thing you have to consider is that unlike a world series, the 993RS market is pretty much global.

There always appears to be one part of the world which either has a lost decade, slowing down/coming out of recession or at a different part of the cycle with respect to the perceived value of their currency......one constant is the number of 993RS which were made. (along with other specialist Porsche and collector cars.)

If the market for 993RS were to fall/rise, it is unlikely that the value of US cars would stay constant at $200k.

What I was interested in assessing was the current perceived premium currently for a car in the US over and above the cost of a car in Europe, shipping and the cost to fedaralise(?) a car.

Agree the number of trades is small, but the cost of the underlying is fairly easy to price.

2Many Cars

No question about the global market but remember there is the US and then ROW. If I read your question right it really distills down to what is the premium over the all in cost of US federalization. Put differently what's the market for the hassle fee. Here especially I have to argue it's a thin market where one or two well off buyers with checkbooks and a need for immediate gratification can set an artifically high data point. As such our guestimates really can only be just that and prone to being blown out of the water with a motivated buyer or seller. That said the US market clearly doesn't trade in a vacuum but it is likely to be fairly inelastic vs. the ROW market. IMHO it's just too thin and too high end to be otherwise.

Wilder

Though I was young at the time, I still recall the insane bubble in collectible classics during and after the crash of '87. We seem to be in the midst of a similar market environment now. After economic bubbles, a privileged few have the money and time to shop for toys and the sophistication to invest it in assets that have a chance of retaining or appreciating in value. Rare 911s fall into this category.

schmidtwerk

I think Clubsport 1 is about on target. The RS is worth:

cost of replacement
shipping
taxes
EPA-DOT
Person cost to travel, inspect, time off work
Unforseen mechanical requirements
The heavy risk of doing all the above and having the car fail to meet
minimum EPA-DOT standards and requiring the car be exported.
The fact that the 993RS owner here in the states has a much higher level of expected condition and quality than the typical euro owner which will require even more cost.

In summary given the typical 993RS owner-collector and the expectations of said owner in terms of overall condition and quality the end result will be very close to the $200K US dollar figure all said and done. Another factor is that if a buyer wants one and does not want to do through the above and avoid financial risk that buyer will be likely to pay more than the $200K for the convenience to own one here and done to a typical standard that its safe to say all US buyers will expect.

I've done the math 10 times for various interest parties. Most of the 993RS cars on the market are not even an option because the condition is too poor for any potential buyer in this league due to damage, paint work, rust, ext. If the car is a non dual air bag car, right hand drive, or a clubsport it is not an option to import for street use. For the right car every buyer wants in the states based on my experience is a $200K car in the driveway. Having said that, sure one could have a $150K example in the states but remember this car must be paid in cash, financing is not an option. The guys that have $150K to spend will all pay the extra $50K for an excellent example.