993 C2/C2S vs. E30 M3
03-30-2009, 02:46 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Apart from the obvious differences of weight distribution, weight transfer, and just pure "weight" I think the 993 is a terrific track platform.
I've taken a stock 993 C2S (yes, widebody) and have created a track machine that instills confidence on the track, has proven 100% reliable (unless I run into something), exudes pure sex, and can run down cup cars and other outclassed cars.
The chassis is quite strong. I have a strut bar and DAS bolt-in rollbar for additional strength. The car is extremely stiff. I went with a set of Clubsport motons (not motorsport), HR springs, and have added every link and Porsche MS suspension/steering upgrade I can find. Practically an EVO/Cup suspension.
I haven't touched the brakes. I run stock rotors, stock calipers, good fluid and Pagid pads. Engine is completely stock. Tranny is stock. (I wish I could use my extra gear...) Actually, I have added a LWF and GT2 clutch.
I have a Fabspeed cat and supercup exhaust on the car. Needed to replace my cats and went aftermarket vs. OEM ($$$$$$). I've removed quite a bit of the interior (carpet, rear seats, installed track mats and pedals, F/E) I do use Hoosiers.
Car is a beast. It might not have 300+HP. But it can keep up and even run down 500+HP turbo motors. Obviously it's not the pure power that can run, it's the car itself. The suspension, the "feel" of the car. Everything talks to you. The steering is OMG inspiring. It's so sensitive you can tell if you run over an ant. (OK, maybe not that sensitive but you get the point
)
I like to say the car teaches you how to use the car to go fast, not power. I've purposely not tweaked the power on the car because a relationship needs to be built between you and car. As an example, I went from running 2:18's-2:17's in the car my first year to 2:12's-2:13's by the end of the first year (VIR).
Each time I go out with the car I get a bit more time. The car is currently running 2:08's around VIR full. It has taken me about 2 years to get to this point. However, nothing has changed on the car. It's the driver and car relationship that has changed. I have ***** where I never had *****. The car rewards the driver that is willing to explore the limit.
I feel I have more in common with guys who are running cars the like of an E30 or Miata because I feel like I'm competing with cars that have 2x or more HP than my car. I recognize my car has 282HP and that is no slouch, but when you run with cars that are producing 400-500HP it really does make you feel like your driving the "miata" out of the bunch. It's a good feeling don't get me wrong. Sometimes you just want more power because they do. But power is a catch 22 - it may make you faster but it may also hide your mistakes.
You can't go wrong with a properly set up 993. I've thought long and hard and have many times considered selling my car for a 996 Cup Car. When I consider where I started and where I have come with my car, the fact that the motor now has 68k miles on it (15k track only miles since I acquired), hasn't needed any work done to the motor (leakdown is perfect), doesn't snag a gear, brakes are insane, and the chassis is just solid - I think to myself why would I even spend 2 more minutes with the thought. I'd be giving up one of the best platforms for a car that goes just as fast but costs 10x as much to maintain.
Just my 2 cents.
I've taken a stock 993 C2S (yes, widebody) and have created a track machine that instills confidence on the track, has proven 100% reliable (unless I run into something), exudes pure sex, and can run down cup cars and other outclassed cars.
The chassis is quite strong. I have a strut bar and DAS bolt-in rollbar for additional strength. The car is extremely stiff. I went with a set of Clubsport motons (not motorsport), HR springs, and have added every link and Porsche MS suspension/steering upgrade I can find. Practically an EVO/Cup suspension.
I haven't touched the brakes. I run stock rotors, stock calipers, good fluid and Pagid pads. Engine is completely stock. Tranny is stock. (I wish I could use my extra gear...) Actually, I have added a LWF and GT2 clutch.
I have a Fabspeed cat and supercup exhaust on the car. Needed to replace my cats and went aftermarket vs. OEM ($$$$$$). I've removed quite a bit of the interior (carpet, rear seats, installed track mats and pedals, F/E) I do use Hoosiers.
Car is a beast. It might not have 300+HP. But it can keep up and even run down 500+HP turbo motors. Obviously it's not the pure power that can run, it's the car itself. The suspension, the "feel" of the car. Everything talks to you. The steering is OMG inspiring. It's so sensitive you can tell if you run over an ant. (OK, maybe not that sensitive but you get the point
)I like to say the car teaches you how to use the car to go fast, not power. I've purposely not tweaked the power on the car because a relationship needs to be built between you and car. As an example, I went from running 2:18's-2:17's in the car my first year to 2:12's-2:13's by the end of the first year (VIR).
Each time I go out with the car I get a bit more time. The car is currently running 2:08's around VIR full. It has taken me about 2 years to get to this point. However, nothing has changed on the car. It's the driver and car relationship that has changed. I have ***** where I never had *****. The car rewards the driver that is willing to explore the limit.
I feel I have more in common with guys who are running cars the like of an E30 or Miata because I feel like I'm competing with cars that have 2x or more HP than my car. I recognize my car has 282HP and that is no slouch, but when you run with cars that are producing 400-500HP it really does make you feel like your driving the "miata" out of the bunch. It's a good feeling don't get me wrong. Sometimes you just want more power because they do. But power is a catch 22 - it may make you faster but it may also hide your mistakes.
You can't go wrong with a properly set up 993. I've thought long and hard and have many times considered selling my car for a 996 Cup Car. When I consider where I started and where I have come with my car, the fact that the motor now has 68k miles on it (15k track only miles since I acquired), hasn't needed any work done to the motor (leakdown is perfect), doesn't snag a gear, brakes are insane, and the chassis is just solid - I think to myself why would I even spend 2 more minutes with the thought. I'd be giving up one of the best platforms for a car that goes just as fast but costs 10x as much to maintain.
Just my 2 cents.
03-30-2009, 02:59 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
I thought I recognized your c4s, If I remember right you had posted it on s14.net when you picked it up, she's a beauty. I was going to get a third one to do a 2.5, but then I'll never want to drive that one either. Plain WRX, or do we get STI's?
Thanks again guys, I will hunt one down in the next month or two, a silver or black C2!
Thanks again guys, I will hunt one down in the next month or two, a silver or black C2!
Really, I get a lot of WRX's that mess with me, a mildly modified STI will beat my 993 in a drag race. When I am bad & go with the WRX I have never lost yet.
Since we are posting pics....
03-30-2009, 03:14 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
Oh, and they sound so good.
Here's a vid from VIR South last weekend. The car's sound is so intoxicating. Turn the volume up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkToLDiFvcw&fmt=18
Here's a vid from VIR South last weekend. The car's sound is so intoxicating. Turn the volume up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkToLDiFvcw&fmt=18
03-30-2009, 10:16 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
"Ah feel yo pain" as the saying goes. I'm a convert from BMW to the timeless aesthetic beauty, sophistication and prowess of the 993. It's like the call of the sirens, luring you with their charms. That said, with the exception of the e36 M3 Lightweight, the e30 M3 is the last and best of the purpose-built race cars for the street. They just don't make 'em like that anymore. What to do, what to do? I really don't know what to tell you. Good Luck!
03-30-2009, 11:07 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
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