WTB: RS Shift Rod
01-29-2009, 04:37 PM
#92
Rennlist Member
not sure a shorter set bolt is needed. Neil, you needed a shorter bolt?
Porsche lists the same bolt for noth RS and non-RS rods.
This joint is different from the RS joint.
FWIW, I will have the details sorted out within the next 2 days. Unless I get hit by a truck... then I probably won't care so much.
01-29-2009, 05:31 PM
#93
Seared
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
EDIT: missed this part, no, not longer than the non-RS. That would do funny things to your shifter position in the car
not sure a shorter set bolt is needed. Neil, you needed a shorter bolt?
Porsche lists the same bolt for noth RS and non-RS rods.
This joint is different from the RS joint.
FWIW, I will have the details sorted out within the next 2 days. Unless I get hit by a truck... then I probably won't care so much.
not sure a shorter set bolt is needed. Neil, you needed a shorter bolt?
Porsche lists the same bolt for noth RS and non-RS rods.
This joint is different from the RS joint.
FWIW, I will have the details sorted out within the next 2 days. Unless I get hit by a truck... then I probably won't care so much.
Brother Mark,
When I ordered the RS rod from Sunset a few years back, a shorter fixing bolt came with it. Naturally, you could also shorten the stock bolt. If the stock bolt is used with the RS shift rod, it will bottom out. In this case, that's not a good thing.
Also, I believe Eric meant that the area occupied by the stock Wiggle-Matic coupler may be more than the sexy U-joint of the RS rod. As such, the actual tube may be shorter on the stock rod...
Andreas
Last edited by AOW162435; 01-29-2009 at 05:48 PM.
01-29-2009, 05:40 PM
#94
Rennlist Member
Brother Mark,
When I ordered the RS rod from Sunset a few years back, a shorter fixing bolt came with it. Naturally, you could also shorten the stock bolt. If the stock bolt is used with the RS shift rod, it will bottom out. In this case, that's not a good thing.
Andreas
When I ordered the RS rod from Sunset a few years back, a shorter fixing bolt came with it. Naturally, you could also shorten the stock bolt. If the stock bolt is used with the RS shift rod, it will bottom out. In this case, that's not a good thing.
Andreas
Unless, perhaps, the bolt listed replaces both. Shows it as a 8mmx25.5mm
01-29-2009, 05:47 PM
#95
Rennlist Member
Perhaps I wasn't clear. At the end of the stock rod is the big metal joint #30 (see photo above). The plan is to discard that piece and basically weld the u-joint in its place. So we'll come up short unless the Pegasus u-joint is as long as item #30. Looks to me like #30 is a lot longer than the u-joint. Make sense?
01-29-2009, 05:59 PM
#96
Rennlist Member
Brother Mark,
When I ordered the RS rod from Sunset a few years back, a shorter fixing bolt came with it. Naturally, you could also shorten the stock bolt. If the stock bolt is used with the RS shift rod, it will bottom out. In this case, that's not a good thing.
Also, I believe Eric meant that the area occupied by the stock Wiggle-Matic coupler may be more than the sexy U-joint of the RS rod. As such, the actual tube may be shorter on the stock rod...
Andreas
When I ordered the RS rod from Sunset a few years back, a shorter fixing bolt came with it. Naturally, you could also shorten the stock bolt. If the stock bolt is used with the RS shift rod, it will bottom out. In this case, that's not a good thing.
Also, I believe Eric meant that the area occupied by the stock Wiggle-Matic coupler may be more than the sexy U-joint of the RS rod. As such, the actual tube may be shorter on the stock rod...
Andreas
The other is listed as 1995 and on. All of the other shift parts specify warly 993 (94) and then 95 and on.
I made the mistake of thinking that bolt was also a difference for 94 only. The "bearing body" (#30) is different for 94, I figured the bolt was too.
Hopefully all of that made sense!
01-29-2009, 06:01 PM
#97
Seared
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Yessir... the shorter bolt does not specify year, so that must be it then. Normally if it is an RS part, they list it as RS in the remarks column.
The other is listed as 1995 and on. All of the other shift parts specify warly 993 (94) and then 95 and on.
I made the mistake of thinking that bolt was also a difference for 94 only. The "bearing body" (#30) is different for 94, I figured the bolt was too.
Hopefully all of that made sense!
The other is listed as 1995 and on. All of the other shift parts specify warly 993 (94) and then 95 and on.
I made the mistake of thinking that bolt was also a difference for 94 only. The "bearing body" (#30) is different for 94, I figured the bolt was too.
Hopefully all of that made sense!
Do what now??
Andreas
01-29-2009, 06:04 PM
#98
Rennlist Member
Perhaps I wasn't clear. At the end of the stock rod is the big metal joint #30 (see photo above). The plan is to discard that piece and basically weld the u-joint in its place. So we'll come up short unless the Pegasus u-joint is as long as item #30. Looks to me like #30 is a lot longer than the u-joint. Make sense?
Actually, it is very close... we will see.
These are things that will be sorted out very soon
There are other considerations too. I will post pics as soon as it is done.
01-29-2009, 06:07 PM
#99
Rennlist Member
PET is not at all clear on what that bolt is for.
Normally is will say "Carerra RS" in the model column. Check out the RS rod in PET.
That said, totally understand that the bolt is different.
EDIT: to further complicate things, the longer bolt is listed for AWD cars.... which explains the 95 and on listing in PET. So there is no shorter bolt listed for the C2. Funny.
Normally is will say "Carerra RS" in the model column. Check out the RS rod in PET.
That said, totally understand that the bolt is different.
EDIT: to further complicate things, the longer bolt is listed for AWD cars.... which explains the 95 and on listing in PET. So there is no shorter bolt listed for the C2. Funny.
Last edited by MarkD; 01-29-2009 at 06:34 PM.
01-29-2009, 07:33 PM
#100
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Perhaps I wasn't clear. At the end of the stock rod is the big metal joint #30 (see photo above). The plan is to discard that piece and basically weld the u-joint in its place. So we'll come up short unless the Pegasus u-joint is as long as item #30. Looks to me like #30 is a lot longer than the u-joint. Make sense?
01-29-2009, 08:14 PM
#103
Rennlist Member
Thanks for the pic! Unfortunately it looks like the Pegasus (Borgeson) 5/8" u-joint is just 2.75" long. 
http://www.borgeson.com/RACING%20JOINTS/PIN&BLOCK.html
http://www.borgeson.com/RACING%20JOINTS/PIN&BLOCK.html
01-29-2009, 08:54 PM
#104
Rennlist Member
Following this thread with some interest, here's a few random observations:
The pic kindly posted by CWay27 in post #2 of this epilogue introduces the concept of using a Pegasus universal joint ..... however, in the configuration shown, that is unlikely welded up for a 993.
Why? - firstly, the welded on disc intended to capture the protective rubber boot is on the reverse side wrt the OEM coupler ( see the flange just beyond the securing bolt hole, under the blue tape, in the pic of post #100 ). This would not be an issue if an alternate boot is found; however, the OEM boot will not stretch far enough to cover the articulation point of such a universal .... so the alternative is to weld such a flange on the trans side of the articulation if the OEM boot is to be used .... but that only protects the trans rod sliding and rotating within the trans nose case seal, and begs the issue of how to seal the universal from mother nature.
The trans shift rod is 16mm OD, so slightly relieving the inside of a 5/8" (15.8mm) universal will make a great fit: on the shift rod side, the OD of this universal is 3/4", or 19mm. The OD of the shifter rod is 20mm ( at least true for a C4S .... maybe the C2's have wimpier rods
) .... so no easy fit here. If the shifter rod is cut closely as possible to the double eared flange, then 100mm (4") is required of the universal. It does not appear that the universal is that long, so to correct for the expected extra length, a sleeve of 16mm OD should do nicely .... for the shifter rod appears to be 2mm wall thickness = 16mm ID. That would allow for insertion into both universal and rod, correction of length, and avoid butt welding.
That still leaves the issue of tacking a flange on the rod side to capture whatever boot can be sourced - or perhaps using the 'helicopter' sealed joint I referred to earlier.
Anyway, just sitting here with a spare rod assembly, a tape and micrometer .... and obviously too much time -
The pic kindly posted by CWay27 in post #2 of this epilogue introduces the concept of using a Pegasus universal joint ..... however, in the configuration shown, that is unlikely welded up for a 993.
Why? - firstly, the welded on disc intended to capture the protective rubber boot is on the reverse side wrt the OEM coupler ( see the flange just beyond the securing bolt hole, under the blue tape, in the pic of post #100 ). This would not be an issue if an alternate boot is found; however, the OEM boot will not stretch far enough to cover the articulation point of such a universal .... so the alternative is to weld such a flange on the trans side of the articulation if the OEM boot is to be used .... but that only protects the trans rod sliding and rotating within the trans nose case seal, and begs the issue of how to seal the universal from mother nature.
The trans shift rod is 16mm OD, so slightly relieving the inside of a 5/8" (15.8mm) universal will make a great fit: on the shift rod side, the OD of this universal is 3/4", or 19mm. The OD of the shifter rod is 20mm ( at least true for a C4S .... maybe the C2's have wimpier rods
) .... so no easy fit here. If the shifter rod is cut closely as possible to the double eared flange, then 100mm (4") is required of the universal. It does not appear that the universal is that long, so to correct for the expected extra length, a sleeve of 16mm OD should do nicely .... for the shifter rod appears to be 2mm wall thickness = 16mm ID. That would allow for insertion into both universal and rod, correction of length, and avoid butt welding.That still leaves the issue of tacking a flange on the rod side to capture whatever boot can be sourced - or perhaps using the 'helicopter' sealed joint I referred to earlier.
Anyway, just sitting here with a spare rod assembly, a tape and micrometer .... and obviously too much time -
01-29-2009, 09:02 PM
#105
Seared
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Following this thread with some interest, here's a few random observations:
The pic kindly posted by CWay27 in post #2 of this epilogue introduces the concept of using a Pegasus universal joint ..... however, in the configuration shown, that is unlikely welded up for a 993.
Why? - firstly, the welded on disc intended to capture the protective rubber boot is on the reverse side wrt the OEM coupler ( see the flange just beyond the securing bolt hole, under the blue tape, in the pic of post #100 ). This would not be an issue if an alternate boot is found; however, the OEM boot will not stretch far enough to cover the articulation point of such a universal .... so the alternative is to weld such a flange on the trans side of the articulation if the OEM boot is to be used .... but that only protects the trans rod sliding and rotating within the trans nose case seal, and begs the issue of how to seal the universal from mother nature.
The trans shift rod is 16mm OD, so slightly relieving the inside of a 5/8" (15.8mm) universal will make a great fit: on the shift rod side, the OD of this universal is 3/4", or 19mm. The OD of the shifter rod is 20mm ( at least true for a C4S .... maybe the C2's have wimpier rods ) .... so no easy fit here. If the shifter rod is cut closely as possible to the double eared flange, then 100mm (4") is required of the universal. It does not appear that the universal is that long, so to correct for the expected extra length, a sleeve of 16mm OD should do nicely .... for the shifter rod appears to be 2mm wall thickness = 16mm ID. That would allow for insertion into both universal and rod, correction of length, and avoid butt welding.
That still leaves the issue of tacking a flange on the rod side to capture whatever boot can be sourced - or perhaps using the 'helicopter' sealed joint I referred to earlier.
Anyway, just sitting here with a spare rod assembly, a tape and micrometer .... and obviously too much time -
The pic kindly posted by CWay27 in post #2 of this epilogue introduces the concept of using a Pegasus universal joint ..... however, in the configuration shown, that is unlikely welded up for a 993.
Why? - firstly, the welded on disc intended to capture the protective rubber boot is on the reverse side wrt the OEM coupler ( see the flange just beyond the securing bolt hole, under the blue tape, in the pic of post #100 ). This would not be an issue if an alternate boot is found; however, the OEM boot will not stretch far enough to cover the articulation point of such a universal .... so the alternative is to weld such a flange on the trans side of the articulation if the OEM boot is to be used .... but that only protects the trans rod sliding and rotating within the trans nose case seal, and begs the issue of how to seal the universal from mother nature.
The trans shift rod is 16mm OD, so slightly relieving the inside of a 5/8" (15.8mm) universal will make a great fit: on the shift rod side, the OD of this universal is 3/4", or 19mm. The OD of the shifter rod is 20mm ( at least true for a C4S .... maybe the C2's have wimpier rods
) .... so no easy fit here. If the shifter rod is cut closely as possible to the double eared flange, then 100mm (4") is required of the universal. It does not appear that the universal is that long, so to correct for the expected extra length, a sleeve of 16mm OD should do nicely .... for the shifter rod appears to be 2mm wall thickness = 16mm ID. That would allow for insertion into both universal and rod, correction of length, and avoid butt welding.That still leaves the issue of tacking a flange on the rod side to capture whatever boot can be sourced - or perhaps using the 'helicopter' sealed joint I referred to earlier.
Anyway, just sitting here with a spare rod assembly, a tape and micrometer .... and obviously too much time -
Excellent information as usual. Just for reference, the RS rod does have a welded-on disc to allow use of the stock rubber boot. I'll try to get a pic of mine tonight and post it here.
Andreas
Last edited by AOW162435; 02-01-2009 at 12:51 PM.