droy3

I think there's some truth to this. If the seller attempts to argue the converse, that he knowingly sold the car with a broken OD but withheld it from the buyer with the caveat that it was with reduced pricing I don't think the court would look kindly. He would have to admit his wrongoing to attempt this argurment and therefore prove the buyer's case. Any argument centered around market value brings you back to this point.

Just my two cents wihtout any legal training or experience though...

jimbo3

The fair price for **that** vehicle was the price that the seller and buyer agreed to. The seller did not disclose the odometer issue and, indeed, blatantly misrepresented the mileage on the vehicle, which automatically and significantly changes the price that the buyer would have agreed to assuming that the buyer would have even been interested had he known.

Without any data on hand, I would estimate that Mike's damages are in the $3000 range and possibly much more. In Texas, Small Claims Court allows treble damages in the case of fraud. If that's the case in CA, then Mike likely has a case which will surpass the CA limit of $7500, although he may have to be patient to collect by way of property liens.

briefescape

IMHO that is excatly what should happen .Reverse the transaction plus all out of pocket expense to buyer . Seller if so choose to puts car back on the market and let the market decide what is a fair price for TMU car .

Also as to getting action from seller to do the right thing I think buyer is doing the right thing about getting every thing documented but again IMHO I would find an advocate to take up the case . Example I am not from the US so not up on who the right agency is or are . Here in Canada for example I would seek the goverment agent that is in charge of these matters or BBB (better buisness bureau ) I would search till I got somebody to take up the matter .

The reason for the advocate is they know excatly how to handle these matters and if they do not get action from buyer they would get better respond from the police .It is natural if you as private citizen contacting police on your own to be brushed off . The police will try and pass on a matter like this because they are propably busy frying bigger fish . An advocate would carry bigger clout and the law enforcement would be more incline to lay charges if need be .

That is just my way and it has work for me . Why take this on yourself and be out more $ and time when there is someone out there that is getting paid to handle these matter. Let the goverment agent chase or sue on your behalf I say .

Cheers Guy

goofballdeluxe

Courts tend to focus on things like tangibles. Since there is no way to know the car's exact mileage, and what the exact price reduction should be therefore, the Court is not likely to base any damages based on that. However, what is tangible here is the misrepresentation and fraud. I would imagine any recovery will be a punitive one based on this fraud, rather on something abstract like what the price reduction should be based on assumed mileage.

I'm not an attorney, but I have, in fact, played one on TV.

Arena993

Exactly my feelings on this. Believe me when I go to auctions and they announce TMU most people run the other way, especially on a high end car. The people that bid look at the value like a salvage title. I would not of even bid on the car if I knew it were being represented as TMU. I know how hard these cars are to sell even if they are marked down a lot. There was C4S on eBay right now that had a Buy it Now of 24K due to a TMU situation. This shows you what TMU does to values of a car especially a Porsche. BTW no takers on the that car yet.

Mike

cdmdriver

I know you are upset, but take my advice, it's not worth court and especially using an Attorney. Courts are very unpredictable, and attorney's are very expensive. I would first try to find similar cars (same estimated mileage in the same condition) and see what the true price difference is. You can then determine if it is worth it for you to pursue that difference ( I'll bet the difference is not much). Looking at the price you paid, it looks to me like you still got a good deal, provided there were no unforeseen mechanical issues. I personally would take the money you would have spent trying to enact justice and improve your car. I know it is difficult but you need to make this a business decision...cost verses reward. I know a lot of attorneys that have bought beautiful homes from the proceeds of people fighting just for the "principle of the issue".

goofballdeluxe

Sorry, I disagree. Small claims court requires no attorney and you're probably not entitled to more than $7500 in damages anyway, regardless, which is what the limit on small claims court damages is in many states. You have nothing to lose and possibly several thousand dollars to gain. Small claims court is cheap and easy. I agree however on not hiring an attorney. Your damages don't justify the costs for an expensive lawyer.

Good luck!

Deadeye

My experience with small claims court was like kissing your sister. I won the case and was awarded a judgement, then I had to try try to identify assets for the sherrif's dept (Brevard County FL) to confiscate and sell. Still waiting for a check 25 years later. What about California motor vehicle gestapo?

RallyJon

Small claims court is a crapshoot with what judge you get too. In my one experience (fraud--plenty of documentation) the judge said, "caveat emptor, case dismissed" without even looking at it. Good way to waste a day, and it my case it was local.

Rinty

My associate is a litigator, and has had civil fraud issues come up in cases from time to time. My impression, from the judges' reactions to the arguments of skanky behaviour, is that you have an uphill battle proving intent, even on a balance of probabilities. I think what happens with judges is that they see so much despicable human behaviour, particularly if they have been trying criminal cases, that they just get used to it.

And just ask any d.a. or Crown about their opinion of the typical sentences passed on convicted perpetrators of commercial crimes.

But I think Arena's fact situation would evoke sympathy from most small claims judges, assuming you can get the evidence in, that needs to be got in (i.e. such as hearsay evidence of value differences between higher and lower mileage cars).

Jetmech

just go kick him in the nuts. works for me all the time! you will feel much better!

groovzilla

having just won a small claims court case in seattle regarding a landlord/tenant issue(i am the landlord), i can tell you right now that there is absolutely no payment or argument for pain and suffering...

the judge will not take it into consideration when making a decision...

actual monetary loss is what you will receive and you had better have clear proof of what this will be before entering the courtroom.

rampfar

Mike PM sent....Roger

spebak

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They might not cover this type of law, but they could probably refer you to someone who could help you.

Scott 1996 993c2

Sucks to read about this Mike. BOL with everything. But, no matter how this comes out, you've got once F-ing gorgeous 993 cab ...