Car rides way too rough after Bilstein HD/M030's. May have been a bad choice...
11-13-2008, 11:30 PM
#61
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Steve
I love my M030 and HDs. Firm, yes, but the twisties are a dream.
Listen to what Dave M (hi Dave) and the others have said about the alignment.
I'm also thinking you definitely should let someone else who is used to this set up drive your car and evaluate it. You may be too emotionally involved, and well... inexperienced, to be the best judge of what is right.
I love my M030 and HDs. Firm, yes, but the twisties are a dream.
Listen to what Dave M (hi Dave) and the others have said about the alignment.
I'm also thinking you definitely should let someone else who is used to this set up drive your car and evaluate it. You may be too emotionally involved, and well... inexperienced, to be the best judge of what is right.
11-14-2008, 02:00 AM
#62
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Steve,
I just realized you have SO2s. Those tires have a very stiff sidewall. I had a set on my car and had to switch back to PS2 after finding the SO2s too stiff for my taste. This could definitely be part of the problem. -2 camber + SO2s = the bone jarring experience you're feeling...it's not the suspension.
I just realized you have SO2s. Those tires have a very stiff sidewall. I had a set on my car and had to switch back to PS2 after finding the SO2s too stiff for my taste. This could definitely be part of the problem. -2 camber + SO2s = the bone jarring experience you're feeling...it's not the suspension.
11-14-2008, 08:57 AM
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Steve,
I'd offer to drive her this weekend, but I'm not sure I'll do you any good. My car is low and has a very stiff suspension that can rattle my teeth at times ... Taylor made me a protection bar and I scrape it going out of my parking garage at the office. You get used to taking speed bumps at an angle and turning into your driveway slowly.
I work downtown and I stay off Constitution Ave. at all costs. There are too many ruts in the road that can throw you around a bit. It is not comfortable. So I drive my mushy SUV to work most days.
If you are on a smooth road, however, there's nothing like it!
By the way... Taylor set my camber to maximize tire wear, but it may not be the best for comfort... And he did raise my car just half of an inch or so when I first got her and she scrapes much less.
I'd offer to drive her this weekend, but I'm not sure I'll do you any good. My car is low and has a very stiff suspension that can rattle my teeth at times ... Taylor made me a protection bar and I scrape it going out of my parking garage at the office. You get used to taking speed bumps at an angle and turning into your driveway slowly.
I work downtown and I stay off Constitution Ave. at all costs. There are too many ruts in the road that can throw you around a bit. It is not comfortable. So I drive my mushy SUV to work most days.
If you are on a smooth road, however, there's nothing like it!
By the way... Taylor set my camber to maximize tire wear, but it may not be the best for comfort... And he did raise my car just half of an inch or so when I first got her and she scrapes much less.
Last edited by Denise993; 11-14-2008 at 11:28 AM.
11-14-2008, 10:58 AM
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Steve,
I'd offer to drive her this weekend, but I'm not sure I'll do you any good. My car is low and has a very stiff suspension that can rattle my teeth at times ... Taylor made me a protection bar and I scrape it going out of my parking garage at the office. You get used to taking speed bumps at an angle and turning into your driveway slowly.
I work downtown and I stay off Constitution Ave. at all costs. There are too many ruts in the road that can throw you around a bit. It is not comfortable. So I drive my mushy SUV to work most days.
If you are on a smooth road, however, there's nothing like it!
By the way... Taylor set my alignment to maximize tire wear, but it may not be the best for comfort... And he did raise my car just half of an inch or so when I first got her and she scrapes much less.
I'd offer to drive her this weekend, but I'm not sure I'll do you any good. My car is low and has a very stiff suspension that can rattle my teeth at times ... Taylor made me a protection bar and I scrape it going out of my parking garage at the office. You get used to taking speed bumps at an angle and turning into your driveway slowly.
I work downtown and I stay off Constitution Ave. at all costs. There are too many ruts in the road that can throw you around a bit. It is not comfortable. So I drive my mushy SUV to work most days.
If you are on a smooth road, however, there's nothing like it!
By the way... Taylor set my alignment to maximize tire wear, but it may not be the best for comfort... And he did raise my car just half of an inch or so when I first got her and she scrapes much less.
11-14-2008, 12:03 PM
#65
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Hi Steve, I upgraded my suspension from trashed stock setup to HR springs and Bilstein shocks. It was no harsher than my worn stock setup. I would expect yours to be even easier to manage. I don't consider mine harsh at all (my daily driver sentra with suspension tweaks is a rougher ride honestly). Your ride height looks super low, perhaps your shop can adjust that from RS ride height to Euro height. Then get a standard (non aggressive) alignment. Those 2 things will make a huge difference in your enjoyment of the car. Small, inexpensive things that will yield noticeable relief. Good luck, I feel for you. Have gone thru the same disappointment with other cars.
-terry
-terry
11-15-2008, 12:58 PM
#66
Re your CEL, btw, you should check if the code readout says cylinder misfire or actually has the SAI code. And if the latter, try resetting the CEL and driving at 3k rpm or higher for over 100 miles. If the light comes on again, check the code again. Reason - my SAI code went away uipon more aggressive rpm than before (used to do 2500) AND the CEL came back with a sylinder misfire code - because my spark plug wires were 10 years old and showing some metal under the outside covering. I had them replaced at my 56k mile (early 30k) service and car is smoother now. I'll advise if you PM me on whetehr the CEL issue has entirely gone away now after I drive 100 miles or so.
Charlie
Charlie
11-15-2008, 01:16 PM
#67
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I appreciate everyone's additional opinions on my situation. I have cancelled my appointment with the repair shop and have decided to think this thing out, and rethinking the whole ownership aspect of my car.
My wife mentions alot that each one of my cars cost on average $3k per year for maintenance so they're $6k total. Over 5 years I spend $30k just on fixing them. With the economy the way it is, that may start to really hurt our ability to travel (spending all that money on the 2 cars).
Don't get mad, but I thought the other day that if I sell my 2 cars and got one reliable, killer car, then it would cost us less per year, the newer car would still be under warranty for 2-4 year (with an extended warranty, a 2006 or 2007 car), less cars to clean (I have to clean all 3 sometimes when they're dirty - that's alot of labor), less cars to insure, both newish cars in 1 garage with none on the street anymore, less cars to worry about... but... no more 993. This 993 is not great for driving around town anymore the way it is, it being so stiff. I realize I can take it to Taylor and he can work his magic and get it to be more manageable, but I wanted to see what my options are so I started shopping this week.
I drove the Lexus (2007) LS460 with the new body style and loved it. My friend was with me on the test drive and he kept saying "Steve, you gotta do this. This is the right thing, selling both your cars for this ultra-reliable car. I want one too now" he added). The looks are plain jane vanilla a bit but it's a fantastic car with cool options and it won't break down that much. They're about $42k wholesale - the price of my 993 and my 740 together. I'd have to sell both cars to get it. I know, you're probably cringing right now, wanting to hit me on the head. I know, I've been down this thought process before, but now it's more real.
Then I looked at the BMW 750i, a 2006 or 2007. I sat in it in the dealer's showroom for 15 minutes, hating it, and kept looking around at it and decided that is was so not me. I never even drove it. I didn't like the looks, so that was that. I thought about driving up the street to see what the 07 Audi A8's were like, but I'm not really an Audi guy so I decided not to even look. I love the look of them but just don't want one for whatever reason. I guess because someone in my parking lot at work has one (some top executive in the adjoining building to ours) and I look at it evey day, it's as stupid as that for a reason.
Then I went online to look at my favorite large 4 door Porsche, the 2006 S55. I can get one for about the same price, about $42k (or a 2003, same car for ... $29k with 24k miles in silver, my only color choice I'd take). I called every dealer in town to see if they had one to drive but none did. I'll check it out soon.
When I got back in my 740i after driving the Lexus I thought, this car is actually really nice and selling it for $10K, it's value now, would really hurt. Selling my 993 would hurt, though it would hurt alot less now as I don't like it's driving characteristic with the new suspension. Blasphemy on a 993 board, so if you feel like hurling tomatoes at me, I can take it. Actually, it won't feel good if you did that...truth be told.
In a way, I hope I don't love the S55 but if I do, it may be time to say goodbye to my 2 maintenance hogs. I know, I know, the S55 is perceived as a technological marvel that will go south one day and require alot of money to fix. My buddy bought one new in 03 and he said all he's had to fix are the 3 of the 4 lighted door handles on the outside. He said it's been a breeze to maintain and adores his car, says he'll keep it forever. He's been out of warranty for a year now with no problems. So they're not all the nightmare people purport them to be.
Will it substitute for a 993? Of course not, I don't expect it too. I had 5 great years with my 88 911 and 5 years with this car. It was my fun in the sun but that fun may be going way soon, so we'll see. I may change my mind but right now I am simply tired of it all.
If I'm not totally loving the idea of buying the S55, I might just close shop on driving my 993 for a while and leave it in the garage gathering dust till I change my mind back about keeping it. It could be that with all the suspension work "we" did on it, all the driving to my new indie and back to get it just right, and the let down of a problematic ride, I have a bit of mild post traumatic stress over it all.
I talked to my BMW repair tech to see what he thought of my idea and he said I might miss the BMW culture, my webforum, Roundel, and driving the actual car which I do like when it's not leaving me stranded (like it did last Friday for the third time this year, this time a hose behind the engine - had to be towed again - frustrated!). He also mentioned how desirous it is to be able to have 2 cars to go between - drive one for a while, get tired of it and then drive the sports car for a few days - that's nice.
This 2003 is $29k... a very hard decision is in store for me now. $117k new, $29k now.
993 on steroids
A pretty boat
As soon as I track down a used 2003-2006 S55 to drive, I'll report back what I decide. It will be sad to leave this community, but there's alot more to be considered now, in this economy than just the fun of owning a Porsche. In my future 993 ownership would be a $9-10k top end rebuild which we can't afford, and the BMW will eventually need a tranny rebuild which is $5k which we can't easily afford at one fell swoop. A newer car with an extended warranty could be good for us. If I but this used S55 for instance for $29K, I'd have about $12k left over after selling both of my current cars, for maintenance for many years (leaving it in a special account).
You may be seeing my car sadly for sale on Rennlist soon, or you may not... I'm really tossed as to what to do, so I've learned to do nothing when this happens.
With potential regrets,
Steve R
My wife mentions alot that each one of my cars cost on average $3k per year for maintenance so they're $6k total. Over 5 years I spend $30k just on fixing them. With the economy the way it is, that may start to really hurt our ability to travel (spending all that money on the 2 cars).
Don't get mad, but I thought the other day that if I sell my 2 cars and got one reliable, killer car, then it would cost us less per year, the newer car would still be under warranty for 2-4 year (with an extended warranty, a 2006 or 2007 car), less cars to clean (I have to clean all 3 sometimes when they're dirty - that's alot of labor), less cars to insure, both newish cars in 1 garage with none on the street anymore, less cars to worry about... but... no more 993. This 993 is not great for driving around town anymore the way it is, it being so stiff. I realize I can take it to Taylor and he can work his magic and get it to be more manageable, but I wanted to see what my options are so I started shopping this week.
I drove the Lexus (2007) LS460 with the new body style and loved it. My friend was with me on the test drive and he kept saying "Steve, you gotta do this. This is the right thing, selling both your cars for this ultra-reliable car. I want one too now" he added). The looks are plain jane vanilla a bit but it's a fantastic car with cool options and it won't break down that much. They're about $42k wholesale - the price of my 993 and my 740 together. I'd have to sell both cars to get it. I know, you're probably cringing right now, wanting to hit me on the head. I know, I've been down this thought process before, but now it's more real.
Then I looked at the BMW 750i, a 2006 or 2007. I sat in it in the dealer's showroom for 15 minutes, hating it, and kept looking around at it and decided that is was so not me. I never even drove it. I didn't like the looks, so that was that. I thought about driving up the street to see what the 07 Audi A8's were like, but I'm not really an Audi guy so I decided not to even look. I love the look of them but just don't want one for whatever reason. I guess because someone in my parking lot at work has one (some top executive in the adjoining building to ours) and I look at it evey day, it's as stupid as that for a reason.
Then I went online to look at my favorite large 4 door Porsche, the 2006 S55. I can get one for about the same price, about $42k (or a 2003, same car for ... $29k with 24k miles in silver, my only color choice I'd take). I called every dealer in town to see if they had one to drive but none did. I'll check it out soon.
When I got back in my 740i after driving the Lexus I thought, this car is actually really nice and selling it for $10K, it's value now, would really hurt. Selling my 993 would hurt, though it would hurt alot less now as I don't like it's driving characteristic with the new suspension. Blasphemy on a 993 board, so if you feel like hurling tomatoes at me, I can take it. Actually, it won't feel good if you did that...truth be told.
In a way, I hope I don't love the S55 but if I do, it may be time to say goodbye to my 2 maintenance hogs. I know, I know, the S55 is perceived as a technological marvel that will go south one day and require alot of money to fix. My buddy bought one new in 03 and he said all he's had to fix are the 3 of the 4 lighted door handles on the outside. He said it's been a breeze to maintain and adores his car, says he'll keep it forever. He's been out of warranty for a year now with no problems. So they're not all the nightmare people purport them to be.
Will it substitute for a 993? Of course not, I don't expect it too. I had 5 great years with my 88 911 and 5 years with this car. It was my fun in the sun but that fun may be going way soon, so we'll see. I may change my mind but right now I am simply tired of it all.
If I'm not totally loving the idea of buying the S55, I might just close shop on driving my 993 for a while and leave it in the garage gathering dust till I change my mind back about keeping it. It could be that with all the suspension work "we" did on it, all the driving to my new indie and back to get it just right, and the let down of a problematic ride, I have a bit of mild post traumatic stress over it all.
I talked to my BMW repair tech to see what he thought of my idea and he said I might miss the BMW culture, my webforum, Roundel, and driving the actual car which I do like when it's not leaving me stranded (like it did last Friday for the third time this year, this time a hose behind the engine - had to be towed again - frustrated!). He also mentioned how desirous it is to be able to have 2 cars to go between - drive one for a while, get tired of it and then drive the sports car for a few days - that's nice.
This 2003 is $29k... a very hard decision is in store for me now. $117k new, $29k now.
993 on steroids
A pretty boat
As soon as I track down a used 2003-2006 S55 to drive, I'll report back what I decide. It will be sad to leave this community, but there's alot more to be considered now, in this economy than just the fun of owning a Porsche. In my future 993 ownership would be a $9-10k top end rebuild which we can't afford, and the BMW will eventually need a tranny rebuild which is $5k which we can't easily afford at one fell swoop. A newer car with an extended warranty could be good for us. If I but this used S55 for instance for $29K, I'd have about $12k left over after selling both of my current cars, for maintenance for many years (leaving it in a special account).
You may be seeing my car sadly for sale on Rennlist soon, or you may not... I'm really tossed as to what to do, so I've learned to do nothing when this happens.
With potential regrets,
Steve R
Last edited by Steve 96C4S; 11-17-2008 at 11:16 AM.
11-15-2008, 01:26 PM
#68
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While I do agree the S class cars are a freakin' bargain now (been looking at them lately), I will go on to say dont own it out of warranty! Factory warranty if possible.
Your friend with one saying they are reliable, well, he may be the exception. Browse some Merc forums to see how they are with a cross section of owners.
Your friend with one saying they are reliable, well, he may be the exception. Browse some Merc forums to see how they are with a cross section of owners.
11-15-2008, 01:36 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
+1 on out of warranty.
We have owned 6 MBs in the last 30 years. Used to be simple like a 993. Now you might as well be fixing the space shuttle.
We have owned 6 MBs in the last 30 years. Used to be simple like a 993. Now you might as well be fixing the space shuttle.
11-15-2008, 01:54 PM
#70
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Wouldn't your new Porsche fit in that category too when it's out of warranty?
A guy on MBWorld said he got a extended warrantly for his MBS55 from Autowarranty.com that saved him $8k on the supercharger alone.
I hear ya about the out of warranty repairs though, but if we have a big enough cushion from the sale of both cars... that would cover us for years beyond that. Plus, if we're only spending $29-$33k on a car that was $117k, even if it depreciates to not much money in 10 years, we'd have gotten our money out of it. Skewed logic maybe...
11-15-2008, 02:05 PM
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11-15-2008, 02:23 PM
#73
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Sorry to add to the frustration. My brother just bought a 04 S55 30K miles, imaculate condition for $32. I drove it last weekend. It is just silly fast. I drove away from teh house, out of the neighborhood, and got ready to maek a left on a main road. I steped on it, maybe 1/2 throttle, and she was sideways in teh middle of the intersection. We then drove down the toll road (Dulles to Leesburg and this thing is more comfortable than my 420 SEL. I loved the car. From TN to here he for 21 on the interstate.
Great car, no amazing car, BUT whatever you do BUY AN EXTENDED Warranty, preferable form MB (that means you have to buy a car in warranty)
Great car, no amazing car, BUT whatever you do BUY AN EXTENDED Warranty, preferable form MB (that means you have to buy a car in warranty)
11-15-2008, 02:35 PM
#74
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Sorry to add to the frustration. My brother just bought a 04 S55 30K miles, imaculate condition for $32. I drove it last weekend. It is just silly fast. I drove away from teh house, out of the neighborhood, and got ready to maek a left on a main road. I steped on it, maybe 1/2 throttle, and she was sideways in teh middle of the intersection. We then drove down the toll road (Dulles to Leesburg and this thing is more comfortable than my 420 SEL. I loved the car. From TN to here he for 21 on the interstate.
Great car, no amazing car, BUT whatever you do BUY AN EXTENDED Warranty, preferable form MB (that means you have to buy a car in warranty)
Great car, no amazing car, BUT whatever you do BUY AN EXTENDED Warranty, preferable form MB (that means you have to buy a car in warranty)
Guess I'm looking at a car in warranty if I get one then. The extended warranty from MB is $3900 to add 2 years to i! Ouch. That price was over the phone so it may be different at time of sale (lower). About the top end rebuild, I'm just quoting the pricing my indie gave me. Maybe it is cheaper in less "metro-ish" areas.
Steve R
11-15-2008, 03:09 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Some people are "lifers" with these cars, others transition in and out based on what's going on in the real world. If your car now isn't what floats your boat, and it sure sounds like you're trying to rationalize an out, go get something else more suited. No one here will come confront you at your home.........
I drove the C4S the last two days out to the shop here the weather has been so nice. Having that much tied up in a car that's no good on the track, and really not a very good commuter either, seems kind of silly. I seem to always think about that when I drive it now that it's not an everyday car. But until something really, really, really better pops up, I'll keep it. Maybe until I'm buried in it!
When it's all said and done, there will be another one out there.
I drove the C4S the last two days out to the shop here the weather has been so nice. Having that much tied up in a car that's no good on the track, and really not a very good commuter either, seems kind of silly. I seem to always think about that when I drive it now that it's not an everyday car. But until something really, really, really better pops up, I'll keep it. Maybe until I'm buried in it!
When it's all said and done, there will be another one out there.