dave morris

Is it still listed somewhere? I couldn't find it in the Rennlist classifieds.

kiesan

Hey guys I'm back looking at this car again since my Dallas trip went haywire.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=400750

If anyone has anymore to say about what they believe the true market value is for this car (and why) please let it fly. I'm interested in this car, and as much as I like the killer deal as much as the next guy, I would be satisfied to merely pay a fair market price.

My idea of a fair market price goes like this. Were I to buy it now and then resell it in a month or so in exactly the same condition and with no more than 500 miles driven, I would expect to be able to resell the car with reasonable or moderate effort for 95% of what I paid.

I'm not saying that is what I would do, as I hope to drive the car for a few years until the next thing comes around. Thats just the best way I can put into words what "fair market value" means to me.

Thanks~

gr8nine93

Talk aboiut lo *****. I just spent $9k on Paul Guard gears and some misc stuff. Figure "the Dentist".---oh that is novel-- WHat happened to the brain surgeon and lawyer. Figure your seller paid premium bucks for that car, over $25k and he is not going to take a major bath. If you come here for advise you need to be looking for another car. I will give him $12k just to have it as a parts/ or race car. If you pass give me his contact info. SInce you are in Seattle contact Chris's German. I bought a great 74 911 carrera clone from him a few years ago. He knows of good cars. I wish I had not sold it. Totally different cars 993. PRefer this but the early years cars are so twitch they are fun. Nice drifters too : - )

kiesan

I did come here looking for advice. I'm asking what people think fair market value is for this car. Why do you say I need to be looking for another car? Is that your way of saying you do not believe the seller will let his car go for what fair market value is? If that is what you are saying, how can you say that for sure?

I haven't passed yet, but I already gave you his contact information. My post above yours has a link to the car for sale on Pelican Parts.

Is it a full moon?

gr8nine93

Sorry, but wit sometimes gets lost in the written word. DId not mean to offend. You certainly know your cars considering what you have owned etc. By being on Renn you are doing research and wish to be a knowledgeable buyer. I do not think the seller can accept an offer from an informed consumer cause he probably paid too much for it. Obnviously that is just a guess. but it is my gut. As to fair value I agree with what someone else said. It is worth what the seller will take. I would lo ball him and he can always laugh at you and then yoiu go up until it hurts. I also agree with the guy who mentioned the cost of drive train, seats---basically all teh decent parts. BTW, I have owned close to 50 vehicles and 7 were porsches and even I have paid too much cause I just loved how they looked or drove or something. As a sales professional I will tell you that everyone buys by emotion ---even if they are data oriented. They get emotional when the data strikes a responsive chord. You seem to be data oriented so you are ahead of the curve. Good luck. I wil go to the link. BTW I know two other guys restoring 928 S4 cars. One in Springfield near Eugene and the other here in Bend.

kiesan

No offense taken. I'm first to admit I am too literal for my own good a lot of the time.

Your idea of fair market value is defined by what the current owner will sell it for? I guess my definition is different. If I am understanding you correctly, you think he paid $25k or even a fair bit more. And as a result he will not let it go for anything less than $26 - $28k. Am I hearing you right?

And after all that, why not share with me/us what you think a fair selling price is for both the buyer and the seller? Surely it has to be more than the $12k you suggested in your first post.

RallyJon

I think what gr8nine93 is saying is that some magic number called "fair market value" is meaningless for some cars.

You can have a shiny, cool looking piece of crap that changes hands many times at a fanciful price between guys at a country club. But if anyone would do an inspection and find out all the problems it wouldn't matter a bit in terms of the sale of the car.

Here on Rennlist, where you have one knowledgeable owner transacting with another, concepts like PPIs and deducting value for stupid little things might apply. In the real world, "does it look good and start on the first crank" gets most used cars 90% of the way to being sold.

So before you do hours of research and line up appraisers, inspectors and plane tickets, you need to make sure there's ANY flexibility in price. Could be the seller will just wait 'til the non-car guy with his fresh bonus check comes along and says, "Wow, that's shiny! I'll take it."

kiesan

Thanks for the insight. He is indeed flexible, and is checking this thread as am I in hopes of coming to a fair, realistic selling price for each of us.

ed devinney

I'm curious why this car retains your attention? So many issues and there are lots more cars out there.

Unless you're looking for a track car or an honest-to-goodness forever car and can get this one cheap, find another target.

kiesan

Good question, one that I keep asking myself. I am looking to do the occasional track day, and it would be a "forever" car. At least for me, as my track record the last few years for retaining a car for any meaningful period of time is spotty at best. I'm 41, and since I started with a '72 Fiat 124 Spider when I was 16 in 1982, the longest I have ever owned any one car is 5 years. And that was a Ferrari 328GTB that I forgot I even owned sometimes I drove it so rarely.

I like having one fun to drive/own car that I can use for a daily driver if needed. I have a Eurovan for when I need a truck, and I ride a motorcycle out of my shop inventory whenever I need to go anywhere in the city. Currently, my 928S4 auto is the one "fun" car and I really like it. If I'm going to start doing track days again though, a 993 is what I need. I think (am hoping) that once I get one I like it will be around a long time.

This white '96 with stories I rather like. The color is on the list of ones that I like, the year/mileage is good, etc. I'm OK with the damaged/repaired story as long as everything possible is disclosed to me and it checks out. Obviously, I'm hoping the final selling price is adjusted accordingly/fairly to reflect its titling/Carfax issues and closet of skeletons.

Its not even that I want to buy it "cheap". "Cheap" to me means you paid no more than 60 cents on the dollar. I'd merely like to buy this car for what it is worth and call it good.

This 993 is in Detroit you see. Then I get to fly in, pick it up and drive to the Montreal Grand Prix with my 'gal and be on the pit crew for my friends race team who are in the IMSA Challenge Cup support race:

http://www.gruppeorange.com/index.html

Its all part of the master plan!

hddude

Can't you spot a flipper when you see one? No intelligent person would continue to lust for a salvage car unless he had fast bucks on the brain.

ed devinney

Well, worth has been covered above in good detail. "Buying cheap" isn't the same as squeezing someone, it's simply that this car is worth a lot less than a similar car without stories. A salvage title could easily mean a 40% hit, particularly since there's no documentation of the scope of the damage.

But assuming you're hot for it let's look. Start with a lower mileage '96, the recent regular driving means that it's probably stilled sealed up OK. Add value for nice '02 5 spokes. Subtract the hit for salvage title with undocumented repairs. Subtract the hit for odometer discrepency - real or not it's reported so it affects perceived value. Subtract the light options list and the fact that it's incorrectly described (ABD != LSD). Subtract $1k for the fact that the shocks are almost surely aged out - mine were at 35k in 2005. Call the Techart kit neutral, some will like it some will not.

Mix in a market where money for toys like 993s is much harder to come by than it has been. I see a realistic value of *maybe* 22 grand - and at that, you'll own this car for a looooong time even if you decide to sell it.

HDDude - I'd hope a flipper would look a little more dispassionately :-)

kiesan

I think someone has chemicals on the brain. hddude, read that quote in your own avatar. I think that white car is talking to you.

kiesan

Now this is the type of post I have been looking for. Thanks Ed! Your analysis closely resembles what I was/am thinking as well. I agree, low 20's is what I feel would be a realistic and fair selling price for this car.

gr8nine93

I appreciate your question to me but I have to say I have never run into this issue. I have a hi miles car (100k) but it has every service record. I paid $25k which I thoiught was a steal considering no blems, LSD, bone stock and the complete leather interior. I have sunk another $12k in upgrades, so I am at the top of the scale. Maybe I did not get a bargain but where I live I have to have a SILVER car and I love the car. As to you being a "flipper" I am just not that cynical. $25k seems hi for a salvage title car cause I boiught a car with all records and in perfect condition for that money. If it is a safe rig taht passes teh PPI strong with someone who knows 993s I still can't see paying more than $15-17 for it cause you are going to be stuck with it. Have you considered calling a dealer and telling him a story about how you bought this car and thought you would keep it forever and now youi have changed your mind and wonder what it would be worth on trade on a later model used 993-997? Take that price and add $2k and that it seems to me would be fair. I did that recently when I was looking for my 993. I saw one near me that had some "issues". A fellow PCA member sells these cars at the local Pcar dealer. He said the owner had come in to see what it would bring on consignment. He told me he would not have it on his lot but that I should offer him $20k, which was $15 less than his ask---and this car had a clean title but also was hit in the front. Hope this helps. If the seller is tracking this thread I hope he takes none of this personally. Could be a terrific car looking and running car but car guys are a litttle picky. If he expects $25 k for the car he should be selling it to someone who wears gold chains and revs the engine a lot at traffic lites : - )