tj90

The only negative with the BP is that its mineral and not syn. The mineral oils start at 20w and additives make it a 50w at temperature. Syns like M1 start at 50w and thru the use of VIs, they can make it perform like a 15w when cold. The downsides of the mineral based oil is that as the additive package is consumed, the viscosity will slowly fall away from the 50w. Syn on the other hand will always provide 50w protection when hot - even when the additives are used up. Jimbo, Im sure you care about your car, so you will never wear out your additive package before the next oil change.

So enjoy BP in good health!

jimbo3

Actually, BP is 10% synthetic. No idea if/how that's a benefit, though. Doubt that I'd be anywhere near using up the additive package as the gets changed every 3,000 to 4,000 miles. All things being equal, I would have prefered a synthetic, but this was the one that was recommended and no one has a beef with it. Might try Royal Purple, Swepco or Elf at some point, but not this time around. -Jim

TargaTango

My thanks to 901aero for starting this post and my special thanks to Steve Weiner, Charles Navarro and BB for sharing with us their experiences from servicing P's and giving us their expert advice (invaluable from my point of view). Now all I need to do is find a supplier in Hong Kong of a good 20W - 50 oil (as recommended in my Porsche manual) with a decent amount of ZDDP.

Charles, Their is a distributor for Elf here. Would their best oil for our cars be Sporti TXI 20W-50? It is specified as ACEA 2002: A2/B2 API: SL/CF.

Thanks & all the best,

DJF1

Relax dude... I personally know of at least one master mechanic who has been building and servicing aircooled engines for the past 40 years, that would only use on my engine Mobil 1 15-50. He has probably 100 times more experience than you and other so called "experts" combined in racing these engines, not to mention servicing and building them. So according to what you say I should trust him ( which I do) and continue using Mobil 1 15-50 in my engine.

What really bugs me from the whole story is this:
Doug has never tried to sell anything to me. He does not have a shop, he does not sell oil. He seems to know in depth the matter and has offered insights that I actually fail to understand as I'm not an oil engineer. He is.
On the other hand we are been presented with data and oil tests from one or 2 companies ( not sure if they are one and the same) who happen to actually sell the oil they say its the cats meow. That is what really bugs me. In business not many people will do something for nothing. There are always $$ and personal interest behind.
If there were no business interests involved, I may have examined things differently, but as it stands, I look at it as a possible sales pitch, therefore I'm really hesitant to jump on the band wagon of mineral oils for my 911's.

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that views this story the same way.

ddidit

Jimbo3

I use to use the M1 variety and after I changed my oil to BP here is what I found. Car is noticably quieter and smoother. In park and going thru the revs, it seems that the engine is tighter and not floating. There doesn't seem to be all the noise that was there with M1. Oil pressure at idle is now higher. After a long drive with M1, the car made alot of noise. With BP, it sounded the same as when it initially warmed up. At full throttle, again, the BP made the engine sound tighter. When pouring, BP it is noticelby more viscous and has better surface tension. M1 is like water and virtually no surface tension.

So with my controlled analysis of BP and M1, I can say that I won't be using M1 anymore. I say this because of the findings of Steve and Charles and the many other respected experts. Also for the price of BP, I will change my oil twice a year being that I put 5000/year. Steve and Charles recommend it so I trust them. Plus M5 and M3 owners are demanding it also.

Dindo - tube audiophile enthusiast - 993nb perfectionist

My suggestion, try the BP and you can decide for yourself.

RallyJon

Yeah? And when I switched to Mobil1 0W40, the car is noticeably quieter and smoother too. Aren't subjective impressions great?

ddidit

RallyJon

This is just what I heard and felt. Never said that it was a "controlled" test. That was just a joke for those that continue to debate on the oil subject. Mind you, I have built alot of cars. In fact, one car I built had 600 HP at the crank and had enough torque to break 3 clutches in the process of getting a low 1/4 et on Speedvision TV and Jon Moss Special Vehicles. My engine builder was a fella named Mike Morgan who specialized with LS-1 engines. Forged crank, titanium connecting rods, you name it and the cost to build this engine cost more than my 993. When I asked him what oil to use and if I should use M1, he said "No, I use Redline." That was in 2001. I am sure this guy has built more blocks than all the porsche engine builders on this forum combined. I had always believed that M1 was the best oil in the world and that was a shock to me.

For my impression findings above, I had a case of Mobile 1 and a case of BP. I changed the oil with M1 and did a 50 mile drive and just did a simple process with my friend who was with me asking to remember the sounds, feel, and so forth. No science, no micrometers, no electron microscope. I wanted to flush out the engine with the M1. I drained the M1 oil and added the BP. Did the same but left it in. It was a definite difference in the overall feel of the engine. Call it subjective but I am no expert on oil, but I know when a car is running right and when it is running well. I am sure you know that too. Of course, I will see how it performs with more miles.

By the way Rally Jon, I noticed on your cars you have an STI. I had an EVO8 that Perrin performance used as an ad car that was fully built and capable of 11 second passes. I mention this because you have a simular taste in cars and what I wanted to do is buy my wife an S4 wagon for our next family car. Are you completely happy with the vehicle and would you buy another if you wanted to.

RallyJon

My wife's S4 has been great. Had a huge near-totaled accident at 30k miles, so its resale is toast. Now it has 105k miles with the only money spent being on wear-items. Chipped to ~310hp/350lb-ft since new and still on the original turbos. Fed it nothing but Motul 300V 5W40 with 8-10k drain intervals.

As my sarcastic rant a few pages back illustrates, never have I seen so much misinformation and unproven, anecdotal and "based on what I've seen" advice that directly conflicts on the topic of oil for 993s. Just bizarre.

Charles Navarro

Nothing wrong with Motul 300V, it's a damn good oil :-) I use Motul in my new VWs for the same reason.

RallyJon

Of course, the 5W40 300V is almost as thin as that Mobil1 pisswater 0W40 at 40°C (80.8 vs 78.3) and thinner at 100°C (13.8 vs 14). But unlike the Mobil1 there's little chance of it shearing out of weight even over 10k miles.

tony soprano

OK, per Charles' very informative website, we should be shooting for between 1,200 - 1,400ppm Zn and P. After some searching of Mobil's website I ran across the following Mobil 1 product guide dated 12/18/07 -

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

It indicates that Mobil 1's API SM 15W-50 has a nominal phosphorus level of 1,200ppm and it's recommended for racing and flat tappet applications. So far, so good! My only remaining question is why they only indicate Phosphorus levels with no mention of Zn or ZDDP?

tj90

I saw this morning that NAPA has their 15w50 full syn oil (SL designation) on sale for $2.25 or $2.55 / quart. Great deal! Does anyone know who makes it for NAPA?

JSA993

tj90,
If it is NAPA branded oil you are talking about, it is private labeled for them by Valvoline. I was in the NAPA system for 17 years and have actually been to the plant and watched it being bottled. Double checked with a good friend on the Valvoline side (since I've been away from the system for about three years) and he said they are still producing it for NAPA. The way to tell for sure is check the back label of the NAPA oil and if you find the word "Ashland" anywhere regarding producing/packaging, etc. then that is definately a Valvoline based product.

Jeff

tj90

Jeff:

Thanks for the information. I found on BITOG that Valvoline has a Buy One get One free deal at Advance Auto this month. Valvoline is making oil for NAPA confirming what you already knew. There is some question if the NAPA full syn is the same as the Valvoline full syn product. BITOG is directing anyone to AAP for the Valvoline deal since it is confirmed that its a full PAO formulation. I think the AAP gets the quarts ~$3 each.

Thanks, TJ

JPS

So, thread shark jumping / train derailment aside, is it fair to say that:
M1 15/50 NOT SM is probably ok for 993 daily driver / no AutoX/track, and that
Redline Brad Penn 20/50 is arguably better, and seemingly no worse, esp. for AutoX/track, and that
Either M1 or BP, don't go more than about 3-4k for oil changes?

Is that a fair summary, Steve/Charles/BB/Doug?