RallyJon

Well, no, a source would be a specific law or a case where a former owner sued a dealership and won over this. And a record of what was sold (work performed) certainly isn't property in that sense. Tell that one to every online retailer who sells--not just reveals--your name, what you bought, how much you paid, what site referred you, etc to a third party for a price.

jimbo3

If that's the case, most people would be dead wrong. If someone buys my car and walks into my mechanic's office demanding the "right" to my records, he's likely to have a boot up his keister. Some dealers may "cheat" a little because they have an interest in the sale, not because they are "right" or are nice guys.

Getting legal opinions from a used car dealer might not be the best idea. Same goes for getting advice from posters on a car forum, so consult an attorney if this is an issue.

jimbo3

Internet is public domain. Common law is common law. I've given you Black's but, if you're serious and need specifics, contact counsel for any major car dealership with a repair facility. I'm not an attorney, but have been down this road several times with several unrelated firms and get the same story every time. (Although one repair facility did give me something they shouldn't have and they knew it.)

stubenhocker

I guess I should sue CArfax then, as I did a search on a BMW I turned back in on lease and they listed EVERY SERVICE the car ever had! No names or personal info, but all of the records!

How many times do you see cars advertised with the "all books and records complete"? I see them all the time and would refuse buying a car without a documented history!

RallyJon

So maybe we should all stay away from saying something is "the law" vs. how we think it should be?

lucycan

My thoughts exactly. Its not ONLY going to help me make a wise decision but help in the resale of the vehicle as well.

jimbo3

In both cases, the owner obviously released the information, just as he has every right to do if he chooses. If I ever went to sell my car, I would most certainly advertise and make available all records.

lucycan

I can assure you that any info found on CarFax was not thru any "release" process by the former owner. That info gets in the database when a dealer puts the VIN in their system.

I have never signed any release for any car I have ever owned yet the service dates (and some info) still show up on the CarFax.

Can someone say for sure this practice has changed??

rome

Here is a lawyer's answer:

If the car is being sold by the dealer there should be no issue with supplying you with the service records. The reason for this is that when the dealer acquired the vehicle it almost certainly did so by acquiring "all right, title and interest" in the vehicle (which would include whatever interest the prior owner had in the vehicle's service records, unless specifically excluded). Every bill of sale or transfer document I've ever seen (including the form language on the reverse side of the title), provides for this type of all encompassing assignment of rights).

Therefore, there should be no issue, as a matter of law, with disclosing that information to a prospective buyer. (Note that certain states may have laws which address this in a specific way, but I do not know of any off hand).

If you are seeking service information from a dealer about a vehicle which they do not own, then that is another story (both as a practical and legal matter). But, as others have wisely suggested, some "social engineering can work wonders.

jimbo3

All I was providing was simply my (considerable) real-world experience from various pertinent legal, personal and professional matters over my 51 years on this planet. You are certainly more than welcome to take it or leave it, but I'm not going to sit around at the library looking up case law for you this morning. Sorry.

I suppose one could imagine that one has all sorts of rights, but imaginary rights often end up needing very real attorneys. I once had an experience with a company owner who expressed his imaginary rights on me and it ended up costing him the equivalent of half of a new 997 C4S. Most companies try to aviod making those kinds of mistakes and choose to err on the side of caution.

Van1

Ok, law and all aside, after following Jason's quest with much interest, I get the feeling that he is looking for a low mile garage queen. How many records does one really expect to uncover on a low mile car? A few oil changes? Maybe a new set of tires? Really, just get a PPI on any low mile car of interest and be done with it. If it's good, it's good. If not, move on.

geolab

The service records of a Porsche in the Vaudia intrAnet System @ porsche, does include
the name of each previous owner of the car etc. etc. but never the bills and
amount fee billed to the client.
What it includes is services performed and claimed between the dealer and
PNA or Porsche AG in the EU.
I have seen the records of my car, it is the ID of the car and most interesting is
it details ALL the options and codes included (more details than sticker under hood).
It included the dealer billing Porsche AG for the stuff and work done on a car, with the Time Units details etc..
Billing the clients is individual accounting to each and every dealer...
This is why some porsche owners (collectors) keep receipts.
I do not know if this is with all 100% of the dealers, because I heard some porsche dealers sell other brands sometimes as well.
There is no print function on that service records. Even if there was, everyone will know you
printed a page on an intranet, and it is as if revealing internal stuff between dealer and porsche.

But to print and over-ride the thing:
you open the windows 'PAINT' program.
Put and click the mouse over the Vaudia page.
Press Ctrl+Print Screen, click in Paint program
Go to file and paste, you will be left with a .jpg image of the service page.

NaroEscape

Rome, well said.

It all depends on the records being asked for. If we're selling a car that we own, and we have the records, then we purchased those records with the ownership of the car. It is my decision if I choose to share these with a prospective buyer or not. If the records are not in my posession but I know who did the work, such as another dealer or service shop (say, I have gaps in the records, but I know who did work on the car) than that shop/dealer typically will NOT give out those records without approval from the individual that purchased the service. That's a big courtesy to their customer. With the dealers I have a good relationship with, I can usually get the records with the names blacked out (your welcome David).

Many Porsche Dealers have the ability to print out just a list of all service performed on a car. It's not very descriptive, but you can see what's been done so it helps a lot. Some have not problem doing that as it does not have ownership info on it.

If we have a car on consignment, we first ask the owner if we can share the records to prospective buyers. Obviously, I suggest to them that they allow it because records help sell Porsches.

This whole discussion brings up the reason why it is many times so difficult to have a very good, complete history on a car. Early in most Porsche's lives, they get serviced from the dealers. Most new car buyers honestly don't keep their records, figuring the dealer has it all. When they sell it, maybe as a trade in, the records stay at the dealer, not with the car. That's why so many cars do not have complete records on them.

In the end, records are nice to have to prove big things like clutch, top ends, etc. But getting a good PPI is far better than paperwork. Just because something's been done "recently" doesn't mean it's still good now.....

My 2 cents (ok, probably more like a nickle) worth.

lucycan

Van1, thanks for your interest. I fell just about ANY 11-12 year old car will have some records. Im looking for oil changes (if the dealer did them) but MORE importantly I am trying to see if the mileage (in this case 20k) was put on all at once or did it sit for 5 years and not driven?

Certainly no one can fault me for wanting some history before I drop $75k or more into a car?

NaroEscape

Jason,
Absolutely, get any records you can. A carfax might help with the mileage too. If the dealer HAS records, just ask about what and when. That should give you the info you need.

there's always ways to get what you want.