Less than honorable seller
01-19-2008, 12:41 PM
#16
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I have been on the fence about posting, but feel that it is the right thing to do since the seller can easily be identified.
I am the individual that bought the car that jhummel68 is referring to. The car was posted on the Rennlist classifieds on Jan 9/08, I called about the car on 10th and it sounded like a sound car and was within my budget. I had a friend take a look at the car on the 11th, it was a visual inspection since the shop closed at noon on Fridays. My friend had said the car was very clean.
I spoke with the seller again on Monday and looked into getting a PPI done, he had said this was not possible since there are no other shops close by, however he would be happy to perform any tests that I wanted and I could inspect on a lift. Since I am a long distance buyer I asked if he would hold the car until I got down there, I was willing to put a deposit down that was conditional upon inspection. He had said the only way hold the car was to put a non refundable deposit down. He said that his policy was that a car was for sale until there is hard money on it, that is how he does business.
On tuesday morning I booked my flight, due to work restrictions I could not get there until the following monday. I called the seller to tell him that I had just spent over $500 on a non refundable ticket, would he take this as a gesture of good faith and hold the car for me. He was firm on the asking price, so he knew what he would be getting for the car. I had told him that this was exactly what I was looking for, the money is not an issue, I just couldnt afford to spend the money on the ticket and potentially lose a non refundable deposit. He had said not to worry since he had never had anyone fly in and not buy the car.
I had also been looking at a cab, and test drove it early tuesday afternoon. I had been wrestling with whether I wanted a coupe or a cab. The cab I was looking at was similar in price and history, ultimately after test driving it I had decided that I would prefer a coupe. I spoke with the seller tuesday afternoon to see what I could work out, but again I was told that the deposit would be non refundable. I told him that I would think about it overnight and let him know in the morning. In the meantime I had spoken with some friends in Jacksonville who knew the seller through racing, and was told that he always sells customer cars, and they are always quite clean and he is a stand up guy.
I was on Rennlist on Tuesday afternoon and saw a post about a PPI in Daytona beach. The post was by jhummel68(this thread starter) I dont know how to do a link to previous threads so here is an excerpt:
I'm considering a car in Datona Beach and asked the sales person if I could take the car to another dealer or facility to avoid any conflict of interest with the PPI. He said he didn't feel comfortable letting it out of his sight. He said I could bring someone in and they would put it on the rack for the person to inspect. I don't live anywhere near Florida. From the pics the car looks nice but I am leery of used car lots
Here is my reply to the thread:
Is this the 95 Midnight blue 993 at Kennedy motors?
I'll be flying out there to take a look in a couple of days.
My post was an hour after the thread was originated, before the end of the business day. Another rennlister had responded and I communicated with him regarding the seller and he had nothing but positive things to say about him, the rennlister even offered to take a look the next day as it was his day off.
I spent Tuesday night staring at the pictures of the car and said to myself what the hell take a chance. All the people I spoke with said that the seller is very reputable, and this car had all the records. I was already into the car for more than $500, so whats a few more hundred.
I called the seller on Wed morning to tell him that I was going to move forward and put money down. He had stated that he had done a compression and leak down and the numbers were good. He also told me that another individual was looking at the car, but since there was no money down and I had already had someone look at the car, had already bought a ticket, and had called him for 5 straight days he would allow me to place the deposit.
I feel for jhummel68, but after reading this thread I cant help but think that after he saw that I had posted that I was flying in to look at the car and potentially buy it, he jumped on a plane. The seller was not aware that he was flying out there, otherwise he may have divulged that there was another interested party flying in.
I apologize for the lengthy post, but I feel that the seller's side of the story needed to be told. I don't think that his reputation should be questioned without having all the facts present.
I am the individual that bought the car that jhummel68 is referring to. The car was posted on the Rennlist classifieds on Jan 9/08, I called about the car on 10th and it sounded like a sound car and was within my budget. I had a friend take a look at the car on the 11th, it was a visual inspection since the shop closed at noon on Fridays. My friend had said the car was very clean.
I spoke with the seller again on Monday and looked into getting a PPI done, he had said this was not possible since there are no other shops close by, however he would be happy to perform any tests that I wanted and I could inspect on a lift. Since I am a long distance buyer I asked if he would hold the car until I got down there, I was willing to put a deposit down that was conditional upon inspection. He had said the only way hold the car was to put a non refundable deposit down. He said that his policy was that a car was for sale until there is hard money on it, that is how he does business.
On tuesday morning I booked my flight, due to work restrictions I could not get there until the following monday. I called the seller to tell him that I had just spent over $500 on a non refundable ticket, would he take this as a gesture of good faith and hold the car for me. He was firm on the asking price, so he knew what he would be getting for the car. I had told him that this was exactly what I was looking for, the money is not an issue, I just couldnt afford to spend the money on the ticket and potentially lose a non refundable deposit. He had said not to worry since he had never had anyone fly in and not buy the car.
I had also been looking at a cab, and test drove it early tuesday afternoon. I had been wrestling with whether I wanted a coupe or a cab. The cab I was looking at was similar in price and history, ultimately after test driving it I had decided that I would prefer a coupe. I spoke with the seller tuesday afternoon to see what I could work out, but again I was told that the deposit would be non refundable. I told him that I would think about it overnight and let him know in the morning. In the meantime I had spoken with some friends in Jacksonville who knew the seller through racing, and was told that he always sells customer cars, and they are always quite clean and he is a stand up guy.
I was on Rennlist on Tuesday afternoon and saw a post about a PPI in Daytona beach. The post was by jhummel68(this thread starter) I dont know how to do a link to previous threads so here is an excerpt:
I'm considering a car in Datona Beach and asked the sales person if I could take the car to another dealer or facility to avoid any conflict of interest with the PPI. He said he didn't feel comfortable letting it out of his sight. He said I could bring someone in and they would put it on the rack for the person to inspect. I don't live anywhere near Florida. From the pics the car looks nice but I am leery of used car lots
Here is my reply to the thread:
Is this the 95 Midnight blue 993 at Kennedy motors?
I'll be flying out there to take a look in a couple of days.
My post was an hour after the thread was originated, before the end of the business day. Another rennlister had responded and I communicated with him regarding the seller and he had nothing but positive things to say about him, the rennlister even offered to take a look the next day as it was his day off.
I spent Tuesday night staring at the pictures of the car and said to myself what the hell take a chance. All the people I spoke with said that the seller is very reputable, and this car had all the records. I was already into the car for more than $500, so whats a few more hundred.
I called the seller on Wed morning to tell him that I was going to move forward and put money down. He had stated that he had done a compression and leak down and the numbers were good. He also told me that another individual was looking at the car, but since there was no money down and I had already had someone look at the car, had already bought a ticket, and had called him for 5 straight days he would allow me to place the deposit.
I feel for jhummel68, but after reading this thread I cant help but think that after he saw that I had posted that I was flying in to look at the car and potentially buy it, he jumped on a plane. The seller was not aware that he was flying out there, otherwise he may have divulged that there was another interested party flying in.
I apologize for the lengthy post, but I feel that the seller's side of the story needed to be told. I don't think that his reputation should be questioned without having all the facts present.
01-19-2008, 12:56 PM
#17
Seared
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Sam,
I think it's great that you posted your side of the story, and I truly hope that the 993 you purchased is a sound example. Of course pics are mandatory!
On the other hand, the seller does not sound like someone I would ever wish to do business with. The fact that he would not refund a deposit is the first red flag (for me). The fact that he would not allow a PPI at another facility is the second red flag (for me). And so on and so forth. There are simply far too many 993s available (and soon to be) that I'd pay that much money in a transaction where something feels awry. But that's just me.
Andreas
I think it's great that you posted your side of the story, and I truly hope that the 993 you purchased is a sound example. Of course pics are mandatory!
On the other hand, the seller does not sound like someone I would ever wish to do business with. The fact that he would not refund a deposit is the first red flag (for me). The fact that he would not allow a PPI at another facility is the second red flag (for me). And so on and so forth. There are simply far too many 993s available (and soon to be) that I'd pay that much money in a transaction where something feels awry. But that's just me.
Andreas
01-19-2008, 03:07 PM
#19
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So it goes. I had that happen to me a number of years back on an '87 Carrera. I took it for the test drive, and as I was rolling out it was spotted by someone at the shop. He asked the seller (shop owner) if it was for sale and how much. He said I will be back.
Meanwhile I drive and really like the car. When I return I hesitated and said I want to talk to my bank rather than just give him a deposit. Bank gave the okay, then I go right back and it was sold 10 minutes before my return to strike the deal.
Meanwhile I drive and really like the car. When I return I hesitated and said I want to talk to my bank rather than just give him a deposit. Bank gave the okay, then I go right back and it was sold 10 minutes before my return to strike the deal.
01-19-2008, 03:53 PM
#20
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TMc993.. it was in Buckhead with snooty accented sales folks.. right next to Bone's. Cannot remember the name of the shop.. I was devastated at the time as I had my heart set on the car and literally while I was filling out the paperwork to buy the car the guy came in and said they had just sold it to someone else. I went postal on the guy (he genuinely looked terrified) and left..
all is well that ends well, I ended up getting a 964 Turbo instead of the 928S4 and those pukes went OOB and balance was restored in the universe.
life is too short to drink bad wine or buy cars from a$$h@les.
all is well that ends well, I ended up getting a 964 Turbo instead of the 928S4 and those pukes went OOB and balance was restored in the universe.
life is too short to drink bad wine or buy cars from a$$h@les.
01-19-2008, 04:18 PM
#21
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In many States, deposits on automobiles are fully refundable as a matter of law.
And, for the most part, even in those States where the is no such statute on point, a seller will have a duty to mitigate his/her damages-- meaning, if the seller finds another buyer at (at least) the same price (and is therefore not harmed by losing the buyer who made the initial deposit), the initial depositor is entitled to his /her deposit back.
And, for the most part, even in those States where the is no such statute on point, a seller will have a duty to mitigate his/her damages-- meaning, if the seller finds another buyer at (at least) the same price (and is therefore not harmed by losing the buyer who made the initial deposit), the initial depositor is entitled to his /her deposit back.
01-19-2008, 06:05 PM
#22
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Banzai993...
Yeah that was them...Thing is, the first time I went in the guy had a heavy German accent, but the second time it was Italian...I guess he changed it according to the country of orgin of the car he was trying to sell at the time...
He was probably actually from Cumming and faking the whole thing!
Terry
Yeah that was them...Thing is, the first time I went in the guy had a heavy German accent, but the second time it was Italian...I guess he changed it according to the country of orgin of the car he was trying to sell at the time...
He was probably actually from Cumming and faking the whole thing!
Terry
01-19-2008, 06:06 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
I was in the car business for 1.5 years, part of that time at 2 Porsche dealerships. From what I saw in the car business, anything can happen and many times it's not good. Maybe you are lucky and a better car is coming your way. Good luck.
01-19-2008, 10:51 PM
#24
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Banzai 993,so you didnt buy the car because the salesmen had the german accent?Whats wrong with that?Our cars were build in Germany so they speak "english" with an accent as well.They speak their language best on the autobahn...
01-20-2008, 09:47 AM
#25
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scat
ACHTUNG... ATTENTIONE...
Read the posting.
I tried to buy the car.. filled out the paperwork.. was sitting in the sales guy's office... had the money.. was excited to get the S4..
Then the manager called the sales guy out of the office and a few minutes later he walked in and told me they had sold the car to someone else.
Just sharing a "less than honourable seller" story.
Arrivederci...
ACHTUNG... ATTENTIONE...
Read the posting.
I tried to buy the car.. filled out the paperwork.. was sitting in the sales guy's office... had the money.. was excited to get the S4..
Then the manager called the sales guy out of the office and a few minutes later he walked in and told me they had sold the car to someone else.
Just sharing a "less than honourable seller" story.
Arrivederci...
01-20-2008, 10:33 AM
#26
Sam,
Glad you added your side. I used Ryan a few times when I lived in Daytona 15 years ago. I had a 944 back then. Seemed like a nice guy. I was shocked at his behavior when I originally read this post.
Seems like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place here. I'm not saying he has no ownership in the situation. If he knew the other buyer was flying in, he should have told the him to come in the day after you. However, it hasn't been clearified if he infact knew yet.
As for the PPI, from my understanding, the two other Porsche mechanics in the area closed up shop years ago. I don't blame him for not letting someone take his car to Orlando (55 miles away) for an inspection.
Glad you added your side. I used Ryan a few times when I lived in Daytona 15 years ago. I had a 944 back then. Seemed like a nice guy. I was shocked at his behavior when I originally read this post.
Seems like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place here. I'm not saying he has no ownership in the situation. If he knew the other buyer was flying in, he should have told the him to come in the day after you. However, it hasn't been clearified if he infact knew yet.
As for the PPI, from my understanding, the two other Porsche mechanics in the area closed up shop years ago. I don't blame him for not letting someone take his car to Orlando (55 miles away) for an inspection.
01-20-2008, 11:06 AM
#27
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bill930p,
I'll know more tomorrow when I'm there but I think I have a pretty good understanding of what transpired.
By jhummel68's own admission he had one conversation with the seller on the 15th and told him he would let him know if he was interested. Subsequently he posted on Rennlist to see if there were any shops to do a PPI in Daytona. He didn't make note of where the car of was interested was located, and by his own admission he was leery of having the seller inspect it for him. A local Rennlister offered his help and was willing to go take a look at the vehicle. I posted that I was flying in to look at the car at Kennedy's in a couple of days. To my knowledge the local Rennlister offer was never taken up, instead jhummel68 showed up at the shop in a little over 12 hours without having even done a carfax.
I can only assume that the individual was trying to beat me to the car, and had he done a bit more due diligence he would have realized that someone was a lot futher into the process than he was. I guess I can't fault him for being aggressive, but that is not something I would do.
I posted because the seller was being portrayed in a negative light, and I feel that everything he did was above board.
I'll know more tomorrow when I'm there but I think I have a pretty good understanding of what transpired.
By jhummel68's own admission he had one conversation with the seller on the 15th and told him he would let him know if he was interested. Subsequently he posted on Rennlist to see if there were any shops to do a PPI in Daytona. He didn't make note of where the car of was interested was located, and by his own admission he was leery of having the seller inspect it for him. A local Rennlister offered his help and was willing to go take a look at the vehicle. I posted that I was flying in to look at the car at Kennedy's in a couple of days. To my knowledge the local Rennlister offer was never taken up, instead jhummel68 showed up at the shop in a little over 12 hours without having even done a carfax.
I can only assume that the individual was trying to beat me to the car, and had he done a bit more due diligence he would have realized that someone was a lot futher into the process than he was. I guess I can't fault him for being aggressive, but that is not something I would do.
I posted because the seller was being portrayed in a negative light, and I feel that everything he did was above board.
01-20-2008, 11:51 AM
#28
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These threads blasting sellers seem to always blow up in the face of the original poster. The last such thread on this board "Neurotic Seller Story" will probably cause most sellers to refuse to sell to the original poster. They are amusing though.
01-20-2008, 05:50 PM
#30
Racer
Thread Starter
Samsnead if you do purchase this car you are getting a very nice one. Everything I saw on the compression and leak down was very encouraging. The rest of the car looks to be in great shape.
In reading your posts about your dilemma (cab vs. coupe) it seemed there was some indecision. Ref:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/403357-what-do-you-guys-think.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/403413-i-am-torn-between-two-cars-with-pics.html
There was no mention in either thread of where the coupe you were considering was - other than saying it is in Florida. I had no idea we were talking about the same car until your reply to the thread I initiate titled, “PPI in Daytona Beach”. I was following the same format as others on this forum when the potential buyer does not live in the same local as the car being sold. A post is made asking for information on the seller or asking for someone to look at the car for them. I did that and got responses both favorable and unfavorable. The unfavorable responses being general in nature and not suggesting a purchase because of the problem with the PPI. The favorable response was specific to the seller. I felt this was more credible and choose to go to Daytona. Yes, I took a risk in going. When I showed up at 7:55 am and asked if the car was for sale and the seller said, “Yes” that risk was over. If the car had been sold, I would not have had a problem with walking away. Ref my thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403704
Your reply to my post was, “Is this the 95 Midnight blue 993 at Kennedy motors? I'll be flying out there to take a look in a couple of days.” You are correct. I hurried down because I too was interested in the car. I don’t feel that a reply to my post or multiple phone calls to the seller gave any type of advantage. To reiterate from my initial post, I feel that because I was there (ie. potential buyer on the showroom floor) I should have been given an opportunity to purchase the vehicle. The seller recommended to me and offered to you via phone call, that if I were to buy the car you would be compensated for the cost of your airline ticket and I agreed. [A nonrefundable ticket means you can’t get your money back from the airline but you still retain the value of the ticket toward another ticket purchase on that same airline]. This would have given you the money $500 plus the value of the ticket for any inconvenience
Alas, the discussion has been made. Samsnead enjoy the car and drive it hard!
I apologize if this appears to be "a thread blasting sellers” – it is not. I’m trying to understand the proper way of purchasing a vehicle long distance. I have learned from this experience and from the replies on this and other threads. Thank you.
The search continues…
In reading your posts about your dilemma (cab vs. coupe) it seemed there was some indecision. Ref:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/403357-what-do-you-guys-think.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/403413-i-am-torn-between-two-cars-with-pics.html
There was no mention in either thread of where the coupe you were considering was - other than saying it is in Florida. I had no idea we were talking about the same car until your reply to the thread I initiate titled, “PPI in Daytona Beach”. I was following the same format as others on this forum when the potential buyer does not live in the same local as the car being sold. A post is made asking for information on the seller or asking for someone to look at the car for them. I did that and got responses both favorable and unfavorable. The unfavorable responses being general in nature and not suggesting a purchase because of the problem with the PPI. The favorable response was specific to the seller. I felt this was more credible and choose to go to Daytona. Yes, I took a risk in going. When I showed up at 7:55 am and asked if the car was for sale and the seller said, “Yes” that risk was over. If the car had been sold, I would not have had a problem with walking away. Ref my thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403704
Your reply to my post was, “Is this the 95 Midnight blue 993 at Kennedy motors? I'll be flying out there to take a look in a couple of days.” You are correct. I hurried down because I too was interested in the car. I don’t feel that a reply to my post or multiple phone calls to the seller gave any type of advantage. To reiterate from my initial post, I feel that because I was there (ie. potential buyer on the showroom floor) I should have been given an opportunity to purchase the vehicle. The seller recommended to me and offered to you via phone call, that if I were to buy the car you would be compensated for the cost of your airline ticket and I agreed. [A nonrefundable ticket means you can’t get your money back from the airline but you still retain the value of the ticket toward another ticket purchase on that same airline]. This would have given you the money $500 plus the value of the ticket for any inconvenience
Alas, the discussion has been made. Samsnead enjoy the car and drive it hard!
I apologize if this appears to be "a thread blasting sellers” – it is not. I’m trying to understand the proper way of purchasing a vehicle long distance. I have learned from this experience and from the replies on this and other threads. Thank you.
The search continues…
