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When turning, do you downshift before, during, or after your turn?


When turning, do you downshift before, during, or after your turn?

Old 01-08-2008, 01:26 PM
Terry Adams
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Originally Posted by Mark in Baltimore View Post
I've been heel and toeing since I was 16. I think it took me a few months to get fairly good at it.
Same here, but I am running out of brain cycles to do this on a regular basis any more.
Awesome video, RallyJon.
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Old 01-08-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark in Baltimore View Post

There are lots of threads about this on the racing board (look for threads started by or contributed by ColorChange), and for people who are new to rear-engined Porsches, slow in, fast out is a good place to start. However, many of the faster drivers are learning the benefit of the fast in, fast out philosophy that comes about from trail braking into a corner where one maximizes the friction circle and utilizes all of the performance that the tires have to offer in terms of braking, cornering and/or acceleration. Unfortunately, this technique leaves little room for error and is best executed with caution and practice.
Exactly. And isn't it fun. And even more fun as you go back generations of 911 chassis!

Other thing I noticed were comments about starting to accelerate AFTER the apex. Maybe it seems that way on the street because you're nowhere near the limit. Track? I can't think of a turn off the top of my head (out here, anyway) where that is applicable.
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Old 01-08-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. No View Post
RJ, what do you find is the "right level" for the brake pedal?
Depends how hard your pedal is, and how hard you brake. I just went out on a fun back road and estimated based on maybe 75% braking pressure and how far above the gas pedal my foot was. I think I lowered it 2-3 threads.

As you can imagine, if your brake pedal is below the gas pedal at any point, that would be bad.
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. No View Post
For all you heel-and-toe guys, how long did it take to get the technique right and what did you do to practice? I'm struggling to do this without stabbing the brake with the toe at the same time I blip the throttle with the "heel" (really the right side of the foot, no?).
On the 993 you dont actually use the heel and toe. You just use the right side (ball of your foot) to brake and left side of your foot to hit the gas, and pivot your ankle right to left. To practice, just do it everytime you go into a corner with the car on normal road usage, it becomes second nature in the end, and you wont even know you are doing it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 95_993 View Post

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Old 01-08-2008, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RallyJon View Post
Here. Watch the king of footwork (it's an MMS stream, so it'll try to launch your video player): mms://a178.v096910.c9691.e.vc.akamai...e_physik_b.wmv
I would have taken out half the crowd if I was driving. You Rally fans are nuts!! It's like the folks that crowd around Tiger when he's hitting out of the rough.

But I agree with everyone. Heel/Toe takes practice. But well worth it once you get it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:05 PM
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Slow in and fast out = slow. It's what 99% of people at DEs, including instructors, do. As Mark & Ken have said, the fastest way is fast in & fast out. You absolutely can trail brake in a 964 (or any 911 for that matter). It just takes practice.

To answer the original question: I downshift as soon as I can, which is typically before during & after the turn in point. The same goes for upshifting: there are a bunch of turns where I run out of revs mid turn, so I just shift in the middle of the turn. In the outer loop at Watkins Glen, I run out of revs as I approach track out, and every time the car wiggles as I briefly unload it to shift.
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