drew3007

The pain and suffering is getting everything (ECU tuning, programming) to work and fabbing all the different items that need fabbing. I didn't say it was impossible but that it won't be easy. You said yourself, the only reason it wasn't terribly expensive was because you did most of the work yourself. Just out of curiosity, do you know how many hours it took to get it all working?

Also, when he was talking about turboing a 993, I automatically thought twin turbo, as that is what the 993 is in its turbo form. The first issue I can think about right off the bat is that he will need a turbo deck lid for the intercooler and I am not even sure the narrower fenders can support the ducting required for it.

As for the numbers, those are great numbers for single turbo 993 at only 6psi. Better than stock 993tt by a bit if I'm not mistaken. It is risky to go higher though without different pistons since stock compression is so high. Again, I was not trying to convince him to get a TT, just asking that he not rule it out and explained the possibilities were he to go that way.

gonz911

Response made.

gonz911

For starters I still have the M3 nd need to unload it to make my numbers work. In any case, what peaked my interest in this project was the turbo charging of the E46 M3 with Horsepower Freaks and then thought given the 993 has the same compression I wondered if anyone has done it. To my surprise the answer was "yes". I found the guy above with his single turbo (beautiful setup), and then twin turbo setups (intercooler and not).

Please see my post above where I noted the level I and level II - intercooler and not. This actually puts me in the same range as what I was going to spend on the M3 - mid $20k to upper $20k range.

I figured overall it's a breakeven proposition for me considering what I had in the M3, what I can get for it, and what it'll run me to get essentially what I want. I'm going to research the AWD conversion to RWD. I'm essentially in my due diligence stage but committed to selling the M3 given I removed everything I had in it, minus the suspension (soon on that though). I'm also interested in the RS conversion which is know is an entirely different proposition. I do know I want a 993 and have that as my "toy" to replace the M3.

gonz911

Brett,

I sincerely appreciate the offer and will take you up on that as I get close. As I said, sourcing a '95 is not a problem. I'll will most likely begin accumulating parts before I even source the car (RS body, wheels, suspension, etc.). I'm not 100% on the NA v. FI, but I am 100% on the project. I'm weighing things out but really want the NB.

You don't need me telling you that you've got a VERY SICK machine, but suffice it to say I'm very inspired. I'll likely take you up on your offer in the near future. Thanks!

Brett B

Got it. I wasn't sure if you had a specific situation you were referring to. I think that building something new/unique is fun, and I enjoy tuning cars, so I guess I didn't consider any of this project to be painful. This setup is pretty simple, one turbo, one big intercooler, one external wastegate, a digital ignition, and a powerful aftermarket ECU that controls everything. So there wasn't any hair pulling trying to get silly bugs worked out by trying to trick stock electronics. I never kept track of the hours, I just built the car in my limited spare time. It's not as exorbitant as many would think, my woman would have left me if it were.

You are correct that I would not run much more then this on the stock internals, to take it further would require some lower comp pistons among other things. And keeping charge air temps under control is key to reliability for this type of setup, which is why I run such a nice big intercooler. Fortunately all of the main supporting parts are already there (turbo/IC/ECU/clutch) just itching to run some more boost when the internals are ready for it.

c4consult

your 993 is really great looking.

drew3007

Well if/when you do decide to tear the engine apart and drop in some different pistons (probably cams too if you go to lower compression pistons) and turn up the boost let us know how it goes. I for one would be very interested to see how a single turbo setup does at higher compression with a 993 platform. I have pulled 500 hp out of 930s so I would think that should be well within reason on a 993 engine.

EDIT: Does at higher *boost*, not higher compression =/

WHB Porsche

Why not just save a ton of $$$ and buy this: https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turbo-forum/401148-f-s-1997-porsche-993tt-43-000-00-a.html

gonz911

Not really what I'm looking for. I've also been in touch with a Porsche dealer in Chicago as well as Seattle where I travel frequently on business and they've sourced similar high mileage cars. That particular car is a good candidate though for an overhaul no doubt, but very reasonably priced! Thank you for the note though. I'm sure someone will scoop that one before too long.

eclou

A 2wd conversion kit for the 993tt is sold by ViperBob at Vortexmotorsports for not alot of coin, and a very simple mod.

Also, you can't really compare a 500+hp FI E46M3 with a 500+ hp 993tt. The former will produce that power for a few minutes then suffer from significant heat soak. There simply is not enough cooling capacity in the car unless you plumb a hefty water/meth reservoir. The 500+ hp E46 is also going to twist the suspension mount points, crack the subframe with torque, and be woefully inadequate when it comes time to slow down.

A relatively inexpensive path on a 993tt is to stuff Mitsubishi 16G compressor wheels in to the turbos, add a 5 bar fpr, add a serial oil cooler, an electronic boost controller, and then Protomotive software. Should be good for near 550hp of reliable power.

Quadcammer

hate to argue with you, but a front engined (water cooled) car with a big air to air intercooler will probably do better than an air cooled, rear engined vehicle with the stock intercooler.

gonz911

First let me say I didn't go the F/I route with my M3 because I want to mod a 993, but friend let me tell you you're wrong, although the E46 M3 is prone to subframe damage if you race and/or have high hp torque. However, with that being said it's an easy enough fix with a reinforcement kit. Quite frankly, if you go the route of modding the car to high degrees of power, it's the thing to do and not a big deal aside from removing the differential. I know. I had planned on doing it with Turner Motor Sports subframe reinforment kit.

With respect to power, there's not a lot out there short of a similar build to a Protomotive 800 (or something like that) that will compete with the E46 M3 HPF Stg. II Turbo which produces an incredible 671 whp and 500 ft-bs. and runs the 1/4 mile in 11.666 at 129.47 mph (street tires by the way - imagine a set of slicks on that thing). That's QUICK! I'm sure there are other builders (Turbo Kraft makes it available but not for $25K - cost of the HPF Stg. 2). That's all bolt on by the way - stock internals!

Two of my friends here in the Twin Cities just had their cars sent to the shop and returned. Unfortunately they won't be able to run them until it thaws out (if it ever does here), but they're Stg. II which runs meth. at the flip of a key and is insane fast. I didn't want to do it because it's going to be more of the same since they did it. However, HPF developed this for a few other customers prior to theirs and this has not been an issue with the heat soaking, so I don't know where you're getting that from. Again, I agree with the subframe issue which plagues all E46 series cars, but again it can be addressed.

You can check out the specs on the cars here: http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/pictures/BMW/M3

I'm going to check out this conversion on the AWD to RWD and factor that in. I have to say the 993tt is amongst the best looking 911's ever. The reasons for my interest in the Carrera (NB) is cost and weight/lighter.

Thanks for the advice.

96C4S

Gonz i think your plans for this 993 are fantastic. It would be nice to see something different for a change. Have you cosidered a older single turbo powerplant for a starter motor.

gonz911

No, but check out Brett B's - he's done the single turbo and quite frankly his project, and then a couple of others inspired me. As I thought about the M3 and that being done (essentially same level of high compression) I thought why not the 993 and sure enough it's been done.

Check it out: http://turbokraft.com/gallery/Mike

Tell me, what's not to love about this SLEEPER! Check out the videos. SICKNESS!

Brett B

Thanks!

I will certainly keep the board updated with any new changes, but I doubt I will be doing much this winter other then admiring it in the garage. I know what this turbo is capable of when allowed to breath in it's efficiency range, so I am looking forward to letting it loose when time permits. Having that extra hp in a 2900 lb car will certainly keep things interesting.