gonz911

I'm going to be in the market for a 993 this Spring/Summer. Immediately after sourcing the car I want to begin the project (funding prepared). I've recently been researching what to do, but I know I want a 993.

I've just removed all the mods (extensive) from my E46M3 to do this. Initially I thought of just buying a 993tt ('96-'97) and working with that, but then weighed the relative cost of a Carrera and modding it. I've thought about two different options - building an RS (clone), or a stage I-II turbo. The latter gets me in the performance range of a 993tt, but without the AWD that I don't necessarily like, although other than owning a few AWD Audi's (A4 & A6 V6's).

The issue is prior to removing my mods I was going to invest $23K for a single turbo setup on my M3 using Horsepower Freaks Turbo - 750HP - Stage II using methanol. I opted to not do that but retain my budget, plus what I removed and sold from my car. I want the car for street and part-time/light duty track, essentially a street rocket. On the other hand, selling my car plus my mod budget gets me in to the 993tt range, or there about.

This brings me to Turbo Kraft. I emailed them and they sent me a pretty good mod/project list from everything ranging from slight mods to an RS/RSR build, to a twin turbo build ranging from:

Level 1: 415HP for $18.5
Level 2: 460HP for $24.5
Level 3: 510HP for $29.5
Level 4:
Level 5:
Level 6:
Level 7 = 850+ HP for $55K (cost prohibitive at the time)

A 3.8L Euro RS Conversion will run ~ $9K and produce ~325HP. Fun factor? My M3 has more power - not completely stock and I'm afraid I'll be disappointed.

I've sourced information from Protomotive, a local shop and now Turbo Kraft. Any input or experience with them? Anyone done a conversion to Level 2 (falls within my budget)? Does it take much in terms of $$$$ to get north of 500 WHP on a 993tt?

Any input appreciated as I'm not sure which direction to go in. I know getting a 993tt would be the easy thing to do.

Also, I know this is getting ahead of myself, but there are numerous '95 Carrera's I can purchase right now - I figure there's a sufficient supply of specimen cars to mod.

race911

I'll let the others talk about the wisdom/lack of in taking a regular 993 into turboville. However, I will with certainty state you ain't getting a 325 horse 3.8 for $9K.

Any comparision between a (now) last generation M3 and a 993 whatever isn't much of a comparison at all. Different design goals, whole different driving experience. Much more than the sum of its bolt-on parts.

gonz911

I was looking at the RS part list and didn't factor labor. My regrets.

I engaged a fellow on this forum who went in that direction and his comment to me was he was no where near the cost of a 993tt. His application has a single turbo.

gonz911

The "RS" build is parts/service excluding build labor for a top-end rebuild for a stated 325 HP:

Euro RS 3.8L Piston & Cylinder Set, Top-end Gasket Set, Remanufacture Connecting Rods with APR Rod bolts, Remanufacture Cylinder Headers - surface, port & polish, 3-angle vavle job with new guides & seals, 7500 RPM valve Springs with Titanium retainers. Does not include labor.

Not sure what this means: "Any comparision between a (now) last generation M3 and a 993 whatever isn't much of a comparison at all. Different design goals, whole different driving experience. Much more than the sum of its bolt-on parts."

I've owned a 911SC Euro, modded - completely rebuilt - split case & a '99 Carrera. The M3, although also was heavily modded, retains engine performance, and upgraded suspension - KWv2, Eibach f/r sways, GC RSM -- had a large mod list. I'd say the M3 would track pretty well.

TheOtherEric

From what I've heard, the RS 3.8L setup will run you close to $20k in total. Shocking but true.

Can you tell us a little more about the Level 1? Is this a turbo kit? Single turbo? (how would that be done??) Their website has nothing and they haven't come up in this forum much. Sorry I can't answer any of your questions...

Harvey Yancey

You are better off getting the 9M Billet Heads, etc. rather than turbo-charging.

IMHO - If you want turbo power get a factory turbo and tweak that.

gonz911

The "Level 1" is a Twin Turbo conversion - 415 HP. $18,500.

* Intercooled & 11:1 Compression or Non-intercooled & 8.5:1 Compression
* Emissions compliant w/free-flow stainless catalytic converters
* Includes turbo chargers, wastegates, all exhaust plumbing; injectors & computer programming; oil system modifications; piston preparation or intercooler & plumbing; engine detailing

* Includes electronic boost controller & boost gauge
* Retains all factory electronics & diagnostics

I really like the "Level 2" which takes it to 460 HP and includes above except the 8.5:1 pistons & includes Sach Sport clutch disc. This kit brings me within the budget of the Horsepower Freaks kit for the M3 that I referenced. I would then plan on a set of BBK and upgrade the suspension. Rear wing required for the intercooler (same as above with the 11:1 compression - otherwise Level 1 non-intercooled can retain the motorized wing).

I'd like to understand the negatives with doing this. I've also ordered the Excellence April 2006 that featured the Level 1 with the non-intercooler setup for more information. Anyone know of this?

gonz911

The only downer with the 993tt is AWD and a conversion adds a lot more to my budget.

gonz911

$18,925 plus labor - I really got off the mark. I overlooked the "other" items for the RS build:

Air intake
ECU Reprogramming ('96+)
Sport Mufflers
Euro RS Flywheel & Turbo Clutch pkg.
Big Bore Throttle Body
Test Pipes
Euro RS Camshafts
RS Solid Rockers


Okay, I think I answered my own question. Performance package would increase HP by 111 plus other obvious benefits.

LABOR 67 hours @ $90 = $6030
PARTS = $18,925
Total $24,995 + Tax ~ $27k

993 ~ $30k So for ~ $57k an RS Clone, plus body kit, wheels/tires, seats, BBK & suspension.

race911

I think you're too focused on numbers on a sheet of paper by bolting on this and that. The factory car will always have value on the back end. Search for 2WD conversions; it's not rocket science, nor does it really cost anything. And it's reversible. Who can really tell much of a difference anyway. And on the street? Gotta be kidding........

gonz911

No, I'm not kidding. I've read enough about issues with AWD and there's also weight consideration - THEY'RE HEAVY. I'm not talking about a grocery getter either. I've shifted direction from building an M3 monster to building a 993 and had a pretty good platform but wanted to build *my* custom dream machine, not buy someone else's.

I'm soliciting information as I plan this out because that's the way I go about it and don't want to be *SOLD* on what to do - did the same with the last go-around. I also don't want to buy someone else's mod. It's also not a "bolting on this and that" as I'm talking about engine remove and rebuild. Did that with the '78 911SC - never should've sold it as practically everything was addressed.

By the way, I really dig your machine inventory.

ninjabones

This car may suit your needs... Rennlist Classified Link

This guy took a C4S chassis and added a 993 TT engine. Lots of incredible mods performed; however, mostly track oriented. Can't quite understand why someone hasn't scooped this one up at this price ($45,000). He even removed the AWD system like you propose to do. The build sheet is pretty incredible; he must have spent north of $100K (no affiliation, blah,blah, blah)

You could do some reverse modding to get it more street oriented for your interests and likely make a few $$ selling the parts to me (GT3 seats, EVO uprights, rear links, monoballs, etc).

Actually, looking at this ad kind of pisses me off... I just spent about the asking price for this car to purchase my baby and bring her to her current state; and, she's not even in the same stratosphere as this car.

gonz911

Thanks for sharing the information. I have seen the post but it's not really something I want. It's very impressive though for a tracker. Also as a starting point I'm also not interested in converting an AWD to RWD. I really like the NB and will be looking for a '95 Carrera (leaves me more for mods). I've sourced several and that won't be a problem. I would actually love to do an RS clone although I'm intrigued with a turbo conversion with an RS-look. I'm trying to understand the +/- for doing this especially since on my M3 I almost did the same. Thanks again.

ninjabones

No problem... sounds like you're like the rest of us; ask for input and then end up doing your own thing anyway

NP993

There is a LOT more to a 993RS motor than the above. The 3.8 jugs and slugs barely scratch the surface. Make sure you know what you're buying...