CP

Hi,

Driving to Monterey with the Mrs. on Sunday (we were in the Cayman) and the subject turned to cars. She was wondering if I would ever sell the Ruf BTR. I said she may not be worth much as she just turned 120,000 miles. Seeing how many low-miles 993s are around, few people will pay for one with 120k miles.

Of course the car is perfect mechanically and apperance-wise. And it is rarer than a han's tooth. It truly walks the walk and talks the talk. Still seems to me it is not likely that someone will buy a 13 years old car with 120k miles and willing to pay a fair penny for it. The general consensus I read here is that high miles are ok as long as it's well maintained, with good POs and records (which is my case). But the price should also reflect the miles.

What do you guys think about high miles cars with all the proper pedigrees? Wonder if there are any 1995 Ferraris around at 120,000 miles. If so, what are they going for?

Thanks.

CP

mhm993

At $5K for an oil change, does anyone drive a Ferrari 120K miles?????

Dan V

Pong: my .02$ is that the mileage on your 993 RUF BTR-2 would not be a significant factor if you decide to sell, esp. if the buyer is local to the Bay Area and has already seen it.

Texas993

Pong,

Your concerns are real. It is worthless. Because I care, I will trade you my low mile (85k) cab... even trade.

Honestly, it will take the right buyer. We know two: you and Steve M. And I am sure there are many others right here on this board.

And from what I see, a high mileage Ferrari has 30k on the odo.

CP

Patrick,

This is a riot. Is it really that easy to rig the odometers in the Ferraris?

CP

nile13

It kills value in the same sense that a house under the high-tension power lines would loose value. 90% of potential customers simply stay away without any other reason. Look at Boris's yellow car. I've given my opinion, I'd buy it. But miles scare others away.

My cab, btw, has 135K miles... and I truly don't care about its value. I just drive, it's my everyday street car. Oh, and I bought it with 112K miles.

Wilder

High miles kill extrinsic value but they build intrinsic value at a compounding rate. Keep driving the hell out of it and squeeze every ounce of joy you can and forget about those pesky numbers.

Randy 1

From my perspective having never seen the car, my question would be, "is the car truly perfect, inasmuch as it looks and feels like a 20,000 mile car that would be the alternative? Or does the car look and feel much better than 120,000 miles, but still show signs of its age? Are the seats in barely worn condition, is there fading in the carpets and dash, do things creak and rattle?"

In particular, the deduct you're seeing is a measurement of risk. The car looks and drives great, but what don't I know about it that I'm going to find out about on my dime? The risk of something major and expensive happening MUST go up as the car ages, simply because more and more items will wear out and get old.

If that is not a truism, then cars would run forever without repair.

The answer is that at 120,000, a well-maintained and enjoyable car will bring far more value to you than someone else would be willing to pay for. You're now stuck with the car unless you want to give it away for a song; that is not a bad thing in the least.

993inNC

Having seen and driven the car, it certainly has value. Would it bring top dollar (what dollar value would that even be?) I would tend to say no because of the miles, but countered by the rarity, it would bring much more than a normal high miles 95. I think as the 993's become even rare (r), it will go up in value as long as the miles don't rack up.....sort of like dollar coast averaging The longer you keep it and the less you drive it, the other 95's will come up in mileage and make you not look as bad.

my .0002 cents

Berkley

Randy are you even familiar with a imported original Ruf BTR such as the example Pong owns ?

Randy 1

Absolutely aware of what it is. Perhaps I should couch my thoughts in terms of what a lower mileage example of his rare bird would fetch.

His question was if his value was muted due to high miles. I assume he was comparing it to a similar car of lower mileage. My answer is "unquestionably". Doesn't mean that it would fetch a princely sum compared to a run of the mill '95, but then again, for all the similarity between those two cars, we should also compare what his car is worth compared to a high-mileage 959!

Dan V

Here's one for sale to get an idea of price, although I'm not sure if it's the equivalent of Pong's since his is a "993 RUF BTR-2", and the one advertised is a "1995 Porsche RUF BTR Conversion".

http://www.ecarlist.com/cgi-bin/show...=6700&d_id=947

CP

Dan,

I know the history of this car quite intimately. A Rennlister is about to complete the deal to buy this car from Ruf Auto Center at Dallas.

I do not honestly regard this one as a comp. BTW, I can't find the listed odo reading on the ad. Anyone else know what miles this one has?

CP

Mark in Baltimore

+1 for Randy's answer.

Come on, guys, the higher the miles, the lower the value, especially once the car gets over 100,000 miles. Randy's post is a great response. In InternetLand, everyone else's car looks absolutely perfect and drives beyond reproach beyond our own imperfect machines. The truth, however, is far different. I'm not saying that Pong's car is not 100 point perfect; it may well be. But many unknowledgable Porsche owners will shy away from a high mileage car for the very reasons that Randy states. When I bought my 993, I wanted a sub 40,000 mile car because, dammit, lower miles cars were better and allowed me to drive the car longer without going over 100,000 miles. My car still has less than 60,000 miles but it, um, no longer has door panels. Or window lifts. Or a working sunroof. In the end, I would have been better off with a higher miles car, but I was naive.

I don't care if the car in question is a McLaren F1 or a Hyundai Excel. Miles matter. Moreoever, one cannot compare a RUF BTR with a normally aspirated 993 or a 993 TT. Yes, a RUF BTR with 120,000 miles will sell for for more than a NA 993, but if you were to compare a 60,000 mile BTR with a 120,000 mile BTR, you cannot tell me that a buyer, savvy or not, is not going to pay more for the former and less for the latter. If the 120,000 mile BTR had some provenance such as having been driven by Vic Elford or Mika Hakkinen in a documented event, then the history might offset the mileage.

The issue, as I see it, is that the definitions that Pong set out are "few people will pay for one with 120k miles." That means that the BTR is almost valueless ("few people will pay for one with 120k miles" meaning nearly no one), which I don't believe to be true at all. The BTR definitely has value but just not as much as one with significantly fewer miles.

IMHO.

Phil

miles do harm resale. 99% of people are afraid of cars with over a 100k. For the most part the RL crowd are not the majority of buyers.
High mile cars have a great price point, but usually those with CASH will opt for a lower mile car, leaving the hi mile car to someone who may have to get a bank loan. Most banks will NOT lend on a 100k+ mile car. and so begins the dog chasing its tail..................